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DMBpride
11-22-2006, 06:02 PM
Apparently the DMB end is a little suprised by slow/low response to 12/31/96... and like it or not, $ drives releases- the band is a business, plain and simple.

SO, if you are even considering ordering... I'd do so in the interest of avoiding further GGP's and Fenways... show them that these fan-favorites are actually worth them releasing.

Smittay
11-22-2006, 06:05 PM
because

i have 42 versions of crush on my computer from livetrax's and WH and RR and bonus pre-order discs on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on

why would anyone need anymore?? the average joe will ask...

seriously RCA/dmb is killing their fans by overloading them with too much of the concerts they DONT want...

so nobody's biting

hint rca.... listen to your internet fans for GOOD releases

dont make up stupid best versions live for TBOWA disc 2 all from 03-06, come on, dont put fake crowd and auto tune on for livetraxs

NOBODY
LIKES
IT

it will come back and bite you

then when you release an actual GOOD show like 12.31.96, why would you expect anybody's gonna buy it?

the average joe doesn't know the difference, that 12.31.96 was phenomonal... he just thinks its the same crap like the other livetrax 4 from 1996

use your head, listen to your fans...not your wallets capshaw,

call me if you want some advice, kims got my number...

chris, be a good little graphic gopher and deliver this straight back to RCA, okay?

glennjamin
11-22-2006, 06:17 PM
I can't listen to dmb for more than a minute before I am bored.

Smittay
11-22-2006, 06:19 PM
I can't listen to dmb for more than a minute before I am bored.

theres another satisfied customer

RCA RELEASE SHOWS THAT ARE UNIQUE, THEN FANS DONT GET BORED

and glennjamin is good people :upyours

glennjamin
11-22-2006, 06:20 PM
theres another satisfied customer

RCA RELEASE SHOWS THAT ARE UNIQUE, THEN FANS DONT GET BORED

and glennjamin is good people :upyours

Thanks Smitty :lol

I'll admit I have no one to blame but myself. 50 someodd shows in 8 years will do that to you. Not to mention they don't really make good music anymore.

suicide kills
11-22-2006, 06:22 PM
same for me.

Smittay
11-22-2006, 06:23 PM
Thanks Smitty :lol

I'll admit I have no one to blame but myself. 50 someodd shows in 8 years will do that to you. Not to mention they don't really make good music anymore.

thats why they need time off

to record an album they want to release full of wonderful songs theyve taken their time and thoughts to put into

and i think they will now that theyre done with RCA for the most part

remember when artists used to release music because they wanted the music to be heard??

cant fake that feeling, dreaming tree circa april 1998..

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 06:24 PM
you do realize this board is for FANS of the band.... lol

and smittay, i dont disagree with the flood point.... but youre gonna more crappy/un-needed versions if you don't eat up the good. your choice

glennjamin
11-22-2006, 06:24 PM
thats why they need time off

to record an album they want to release full of wonderful songs theyve taken their time and thoughts to put into

and i think they will now that theyre done with RCA for the most part

remember when artists used to release music because they wanted the music to be heard??

cant fake that feeling, dreaming tree circa april 1998..

A lot of time off as well, a good 2-3 years if you ask me.

Mac
11-22-2006, 06:27 PM
Because I didn't know until today that this was even a release.

Buddy The Elf
11-22-2006, 06:27 PM
I can't listen to dmb for more than a minute before I am bored.



then why do you keep coming here or to any other DMB board?
reading your posts is getting really old.

timh.
11-22-2006, 06:28 PM
when is the cutoff for preorder?

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 06:28 PM
A lot of time off as well, a good 2-3 years if you ask me.

we can debate the necessity of a break - or not... I think most agree it's needed. But I'm more interested in practical reasons why people arent ordering, because this is finally an opportunity to show support for those favored shows. What are other reasons people arent buying?

Vincent
11-22-2006, 06:31 PM
gotta agree on the fake crowd noise, especially Break Free on Fenway
who are they kidding when it was a first listen for 99% of the stadium

Per553
11-22-2006, 06:31 PM
we can debate the necessity of a break - or not... I think most agree it's needed. But I'm more interested in practical reasons why people arent ordering, because this is finally an opportunity to show support for those favored shows. What are other reasons people arent buying?

i pre-ordered 2 days ago but i'm guessing some reasons people aren't ordering is because they know they can get it oink (or some other bit torrent site) right when it comes out, if not sooner given the eons it seems to have taken for the bowa discs to get distributed.

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 06:37 PM
i pre-ordered 2 days ago but i'm guessing some reasons people aren't ordering is because they know they can get it oink (or some other bit torrent site) right when it comes out, if not sooner given the eons it seems to have taken for the bowa discs to get distributed.

I will definitely get it digitally from somewhere before the cd's come to me, there is no doubt... but this series is 99% online-order only. Fenway had extremely limited distribution in stores. However, if people don't buy them, one (or both) of two things will start to happen-

1) they will release shows like fenway, that they know are popular to the mainstream, and neglect shows like 12.31.96

and

2) they will begin to release them in stores more... all those complaining that LiveTrax was supposed to be for the fans, online only, etc... and safe from the hordes? You're going to be seeing more popular shows only, and in stores to make the money they're not making online





Like I said- this is a business. Even if the band doesn't care, the management does. Wrong as that may be, it is what it is. I'm not trying to sell for the band, but I do want to look out for my own interests as far as what I hope the future of this series holds... and the weak to this response is a problem. SO- if you want to see these sorts of fan-craved shows continue to come out, you have to make it worth their while.

glennjamin
11-22-2006, 06:41 PM
then why do you keep coming here or to any other DMB board?
reading your posts is getting really old.

Hey Keith, put me on ignore. Oh and Happy Thanksgiving! :hi

bigtrain21
11-22-2006, 06:43 PM
I ordered it the day we found out, but usually I wait until the last few days of the preorder before I order. They need to give it time...

glennjamin
11-22-2006, 06:43 PM
we can debate the necessity of a break - or not... I think most agree it's needed. But I'm more interested in practical reasons why people arent ordering, because this is finally an opportunity to show support for those favored shows. What are other reasons people arent buying?

I gave you two reasons. I'm bored with the band and I don't think they have put out good music in 6 years. I think those are two legitimate reasons. Especially when the band tours year in and year out playing the same 20-30 songs every other night.

mrchattr
11-22-2006, 06:49 PM
I gave you two reasons. I'm bored with the band and I don't think they have put out good music in 6 years. I think those are two legitimate reasons. Especially when the band tours year in and year out playing the same 20-30 songs every other night.

OK, so I'm really curious now...and this isn't a diss, it's an honest question. Back at ufck, I asked a while ago why people who no longer like the band still posted in DMBc, and the main response was that they were a part of the ufck community, and they posted there for so long and stuff.

Now it's a new board, devoted solely to DMB. Why come over if you don't like the band? And to be honest, I've always enjoyed a lot of your posts, so I'm glad to see you here. This isn't a "get out now" comment or anything...I'm just honestly wondering why people would come to a new board to just insult a band.

glennjamin
11-22-2006, 06:56 PM
OK, so I'm really curious now...and this isn't a diss, it's an honest question. Back at ufck, I asked a while ago why people who no longer like the band still posted in DMBc, and the main response was that they were a part of the ufck community, and they posted there for so long and stuff.

Now it's a new board, devoted solely to DMB. Why come over if you don't like the band? And to be honest, I've always enjoyed a lot of your posts, so I'm glad to see you here. This isn't a "get out now" comment or anything...I'm just honestly wondering why people would come to a new board to just insult a band.

This place is the same as dmbc at ufck. I click DMBc at UFCK and it brings me here.

I really, truly would like to get into this band again. I enjoy a lot of the people here which is why I still come back. But im not going to just stop posting because everyone hates my negativity. If I wanted, I could be a complete ass and just start threads about how much i hate this band but I don't and I will not.

But it really does piss me off that this band continues to put out pure crap when they are such an awesome band.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 06:56 PM
you do realize this board is for FANS of the band.... lol

and smittay, i dont disagree with the flood point.... but youre gonna more crappy/un-needed versions if you don't eat up the good. your choice

that is pretty stupid IMO. We will release more shit because people aren't buying the great shows in mass quantities after we released a huge amount of shit.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 07:00 PM
SO- if you want to see these sorts of fan-craved shows continue to come out, you have to make it worth their while.


you're preaching to the choir here I think...I'm betting about 85% of the people who post here order this. DMB management is sending people to the boards to make us feel guilty now? Are we supposed to buy 2-3 copies?

mrchattr
11-22-2006, 07:00 PM
This place is the same as dmbc at ufck. I click DMBc at UFCK and it brings me here.

I really, truly would like to get into this band again. I enjoy a lot of the people here which is why I still come back. But im not going to just stop posting because everyone hates my negativity. If I wanted, I could be a complete ass and just start threads about how much i hate this band but I don't and I will not.

But it really does piss me off that this band continues to put out pure crap when they are such an awesome band.

Thanks for that answer. It makes a lot more sense to me now. Yeah, I want them to put stuff out again that makes every single person on here excited and happy. I mean, that would just make me so happy.

Sounds gay, but it's true. I wasn't on the boards in '98, and I wish I could experience a community as excited as that again.

timh.
11-22-2006, 07:01 PM
you're preaching to the choir here I think...I'm betting about 85% of the people who post here order this. DMB management is sending people to the boards to make us feel guilty now? Are we supposed to buy 2-3 copies?

wait... who was sent here to make us feel guilty?

Mersh
11-22-2006, 07:02 PM
When you cater to the more casual fan most of the time a release like this isn't going to see Crash like numbers. Surprising that it comes down to nothing but $$$ though.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 07:02 PM
wait... who was sent here to make us feel guilty?

I was talking to Pride, he works for them.

edit: and I don't really believe that is what is going on.

timh.
11-22-2006, 07:05 PM
I was talking to Pride, he works for them.
oh shit really? that's cool that he actually got the job working for them (i remember him trying to get his suff to them a while back) but that's pretty dumb if people in the dmb camp are actually trying to guilt us

Mersh
11-22-2006, 07:05 PM
it seems like that BOWA should've satisfied the causal fan, and leave the LT do the hardcore dorks. but cash drives the market.

even still...they have to be making money by the truckload.

yeah, I mean I would figure this is all gravy for them (the LT releases) anyway...guess it isn't enough, when will it be?

glennjamin
11-22-2006, 07:07 PM
Thanks for that answer. It makes a lot more sense to me now. Yeah, I want them to put stuff out again that makes every single person on here excited and happy. I mean, that would just make me so happy.

Sounds gay, but it's true. I wasn't on the boards in '98, and I wish I could experience a community as excited as that again.

My pleasure. I would love to see this band get back to where it used to be. I personally don't think it will happen but im still holding out hope. I have gotten into a ton of music that I love so I shouldn't complaint too much.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 07:07 PM
oh shit really? that's cool that he actually got the job working for them (i remember him trying to get his suff to them a while back) but that's pretty dumb if people in the dmb camp are actually trying to guilt us

I don't think he was sent here with that mission or anything, but again it comes down to being about the $$ and not fans. I get that it is a business, but damned if it seems like its never enough.

Tomacco
11-22-2006, 07:07 PM
Thanks for that answer. It makes a lot more sense to me now. Yeah, I want them to put stuff out again that makes every single person on here excited and happy. I mean, that would just make me so happy.

Sounds gay, but it's true. I wasn't on the boards in '98, and I wish I could experience a community as excited as that again.

The mood here in June 2006 was about as good as its been in a couple of years.

But yeah, when it comes down to it, if DMB put out another great studio album, the negativity would pretty much end in all respects I think. I don't think people will even care that much about which live songs/shows are released anymore. They'll be too happy listening to the great new studio album over and over, and live versions of those songs. They really can't bank off their pre-ED material anymore. Releasing 20 versions of Too Much, Crash, Jimi Thing, Last Stop, and Crush is no solution for rejuvinating people's interest. Exciting brand new material is.

As for recent shows like Fenway and GGP possibly selling more then LT7 or LT4, well, that's obvious. Clearly the newest shows will sell better, regardless of their "quality".

Mersh
11-22-2006, 07:09 PM
The mood here in June 2006 was about as good as its been in a couple of years.

But yeah, when it comes down to it, if DMB put out another great studio album, the negativity would pretty much end in all respects I think. I don't think people will even care that much about which live songs/shows are released anymore. They'll be too happy listening to the great new studio album over and over, and live versions of those songs. They really can't bank off their pre-ED material anymore. Releasing 20 versions of Too Much, Crash, Jimi Thing, Last Stop, and Crush is no solution for rejuvinating people's interest. Exciting brand new material is.

I think if that material has been around in the past few years you'd still have a lot more people around who would be buying these classic old shows. I mean LT7 is one of their best shows and there are people around who have never heard it. That isn't a knock on those people, but rather a statement on the people that have left along the way IMO.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 07:10 PM
.

As for recent shows like Fenway and GGP possibly selling more then LT7 or LT4, well, that's obvious. Clearly the newest shows will sell better, regardless of their "quality".

Yeah I agree with that. It is recent and fresh in people's minds.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 07:11 PM
you'd think they would see the bigger picture too. the release of good LT shows, keeps the hardcore fan base happy...thus...we continue to go to shows, buy merchandise, etc. etc.

not everything they do needs to be a cash cow. let the the LT series be our little niche. IMO

I agree, but obviously if this thing doesn't sell huge it is the flavor of the tour from here on out. If that is the case I can't see myself getting amny more of these unless the show is truely exceptional.

Tomacco
11-22-2006, 07:12 PM
I think if that material has been around in the past few years you'd still have a lot more people around who would be buying these classic old shows. I mean LT7 is one of their best shows and there are people around who have never heard it. That isn't a knock on those people, but rather a statement on the people that have left along the way IMO.

Yep, agreed. It's obvious to us that in the past three-four years the band has lost popularity, and I'd venture to say that's entirely because of a lack of great exciting new studio material.

EDIT/ADD: I also think the hiatus of studio material between 2002 and 2005 was a negative factor in DMB's popularity. That's a fairly long break without a set of 10-15 new songs, solidified and finished for a band like DMB. I know a lot of people, personally, who dropped off the DMB wagon during this period, even before SU was released.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 07:13 PM
Can we make a deal where we agree to buy any terrible Best of package or whatever that they put out if they keep releasing great shows?

Tomacco
11-22-2006, 07:17 PM
Can we make a deal where we agree to buy any terrible Best of package or whatever that they put out if they keep releasing great shows?

Nah. I really only want great new material now. These LT's are nice and all, but to me that's about it. Hearing Idea of You for the first time tops any experience I've had listening to LT's which I've heard AUD's of and have heard all the songs off of a million times. If I keep buying all these live releases before a good new studio album comes out, I'll honestly start to feel like those dorks who have bought all the dozens of re-re-re-re-releases of the Star Wars movies.

celluloid hero
11-22-2006, 07:18 PM
The slow sales thing really surprises me. I've gotten copies of all the LT's because money's been tight for whatever reason always knowing I was going to get a gift set, and I will be getting the 1 - 6 for Christmas, I made my first ever DMB online preorder the second I got the e-mail. That poll on ufck was like 170 - 25 "buying" vs. "not buying". Which is still only 170 people, but here's my point.

You've got, say for the sake of example, 10,000 people who buy whatever they put out, no matter what show. Whether it's 4.21.01 or 2.19.96. These are people who either don't know shit from shinola, respectively, or they collect everything. Then you have 500 people who will buy it if it is a good show, which I think is most people on this site.

By my Xavier math, that means if they release 4.21.01, they get 10,000 buys. If they release 2.19.96, they get 10,500. The numbers aren't going to magically quadruple on sales. But, building a base, where fans have like 6 out of 8 releases because they're great, will magnetically force them to get the other 2 they don't have and future releases to build the collection.

What it also does is build good will. There has been a separation of live series releases from the concerts like Central Park and Live Traxes. The sales numbers due to my theory above (and until I see real sales numbers, I'm going to assume I'm right that there's little variance in sales), there is a much better relationship between management and fans. They know what we want, everyone else will get it anyway, so hook us up.

Just my theory.

Fan#41
11-22-2006, 07:23 PM
I don't see any reason NOT to buy this release. If you were actually done with the band then you wouldn't be posting in DMBc. Secondly, I think buying this release, to help push the number of units sold, would send a clear message to the crew that the classic and legendary shows like 12/31/96(that we've demanded/requested for years) are exactly what we all want and it would be good for both the fans and the band(management/crew) to release more gems like this(ie; Dead Openers).

Some shows like GGP, or 4/30/96, or even Fenway....those are understandable skip-overs. Even shows like 8/27/00, because some people don't prefer that era of the band...but 12/31/96 represents an era that a lot of us were completely captivated in and to see the crew finally release something so incredible only calls for us, as fans, to promote the crew's choice of selection here. It only makes sense.

I'm not saying anyone is stupid or wrong for NOT purchasing this, rather that 99% of the reasons just don't make much sense....especially if you're still posing on a DMB messageboard.

KaraL
11-22-2006, 07:27 PM
They are simply releasing too many shows with not enough time spread between them. I am even sick of them and I love DMB. I mean we just got all these live tracks from the BOWA bonus cd and encore disc and I haven't really even had a chance to enjoy these yet but here comes ANOTHER release already. Remember when Red Rocks '95 was release everyone was THRILLED and couldn't wait because we didn't have anything else. Hell even when Live in Chicago was released I couldn't wait to drive to Best Buy to buy it and pop it in the car and listen. I remember thinking "Oh wow, finally ASTB on CD!". DMB doesn't experiment enough for there to be major difference in versions of songs so now that we are to the point where almost every song has an official release there's really nothing to look forward to. The release of 12/8/98 was a great pick, but so soon after they release that godawful Golden Gate show. Live releases should be reserved for great shows and special moments in the band's career. Not random mediocre shit like LT2, LT4, LT5, Fenway. 12/31/96 should be Live Trax 3 right now, not 7.

sarge
11-22-2006, 07:27 PM
i have no job and gave my last dollars to this message board = no LT7

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 07:29 PM
you're preaching to the choir here I think...I'm betting about 85% of the people who post here order this. DMB management is sending people to the boards to make us feel guilty now? Are we supposed to buy 2-3 copies?

theyre not trying to guilt anyone. What i posted was my view alone, seeing both sides. They're merely surprised that it hasnt been selling quite like they had expected, considering the demand they hear for it. I'm saying, by not ordering it, this is the effect I can see on its way- more Fenways, that will sell.

Fan#41
11-22-2006, 07:29 PM
12/31/96 should be Live Trax 3 right now, not 7.

I couldn't agree anymore. Lord knows how happy I am that it's finally released, but I completely agree with you.

glennjamin
11-22-2006, 07:30 PM
I don't see any reason NOT to buy this release. If you were actually done with the band then you wouldn't be posting in DMBc. Secondly, I think buying this release, to help push the number of units sold, would send a clear message to the crew that the classic and legendary shows like 12/31/96(that we've demanded/requested for years) are exactly what we all want and it would be good for both the fans and the band(management/crew) to release more gems like this(ie; Dead Openers).

Some shows like GGP, or 4/30/96, or even Fenway....those are understandable skip-overs. Even shows like 8/27/00, because some people don't prefer that era of the band...but 12/31/96 represents an era that a lot of us were completely captivated in and to see the crew finally release something so incredible only calls for us, as fans, to promote the crew's choice of selection here. It only makes sense.

I'm not saying anyone is stupid or wrong for NOT purchasing this, rather that 99% of the reasons just don't make much sense....especially if you're still posing on a DMB messageboard.

I'm not completely done with this band yet but why would I throw away more money to buy something that is going to sit on the shelf. Especially for a band that seriously appears to only care about the money now and not making good music. And also, there is no way in hell would I spend money just to send a message to the band that they should release more older shows. Im not saying I would never buy it, but definately not in the forseeable future.

KaraL
11-22-2006, 07:31 PM
I couldn't agree anymore. Lord knows how happy I am that it's finally released, but I completely agree with you.

I mean what was the purpose of LT4 if you're going to release 12/31 a year later? The decisions DMB's management makes baffle me. And what is special about LT5 other than PFWYG and that Jimi Thing? It's Red Rocks '95 basically and people aren't paying another $20 for something they think they already have.

celluloid hero
11-22-2006, 07:33 PM
I mean what was the purpose of LT4 if you're going to release 12/31 a year later? The decisions DMB's management makes baffle me. And what is special about LT5 other than PFWYG and that Jimi Thing? It's Red Rocks '95 basically and people aren't paying another $20 for something they think they already have.

you're saying this to a community where a lot of people download almost every show. LT5 fucking rocks. Every song of it.

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 07:35 PM
I'm not completely done with this band yet but why would I throw away more money to buy something that is going to sit on the shelf. Especially for a band that seriously appears to only care about the money now and not making good music. And also, there is no way in hell would I spend money just to send a message to the band that they should release more older shows. Im not saying I would never buy it, but definately not in the forseeable future.

dont confuse the band with management. the band isnt aware of the fan unrest and the cap$haw drive... whether by choice or by practicality, they're involved in their releases on the most minimal levels- dates picks, maybe. artwork, they give input. cost and frequency of release? thats for management to be trusted with

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 07:36 PM
They are simply releasing too many shows with not enough time spread between them. I am even sick of them and I love DMB. I mean we just got all these live tracks from the BOWA bonus cd and encore disc and I haven't really even had a chance to enjoy these yet but here comes ANOTHER release already. Remember when Red Rocks '95 was release everyone was THRILLED and couldn't wait because we didn't have anything else. Hell even when Live in Chicago was released I couldn't wait to drive to Best Buy to buy it and pop it in the car and listen. I remember thinking "Oh wow, finally ASTB on CD!". DMB doesn't experiment enough for there to be major difference in versions of songs so now that we are to the point where almost every song has an official release there's really nothing to look forward to. The release of 12/8/98 was a great pick, but so soon after they release that godawful Golden Gate show. Live releases should be reserved for great shows and special moments in the band's career. Not random mediocre shit like LT2, LT4, LT5, Fenway. 12/31/96 should be Live Trax 3 right now, not 7.
While I dont agree that LT 2/4/5 shouldnt have come out, I do agree that we shouldn't be at anything past LT3- regardless of what 3 they are.

Fan#41
11-22-2006, 07:37 PM
I'm not completely done with this band yet but why would I throw away more money to buy something that is going to sit on the shelf. Especially for a band that seriously appears to only care about the money now and not making good music. And also, there is no way in hell would I spend money just to send a message to the band that they should release more older shows. Im not saying I would never buy it, but definately not in the forseeable future.

Wait...but this album isn't a studio album so why be so spiteful about their short-comings in the studio recently and deny yourself the first thing, atleast dmb-related, they've done right in a while, especially from an era that we all love. This isn't new music, this is the classic music, played in a manner which wasn't done too often even back then. I'm surprised you're fluffing this one off Glenn. I thought out of anyone, someone who is fairly done with DMB would find themselves atleast happy about a live release sich as this one, a kind of pinnacle of how the band grew and what made people like you and me fans.

And I didn't mean to JUST purchase this release to send a message, rather that's an incentive along with purchasing this phenominal release.

glennjamin
11-22-2006, 07:37 PM
dont confuse the band with management. the band isnt aware of the fan unrest and the cap$haw drive... whether by choice or by practicality, they're involved in their releases on the most minimal levels- dates picks, maybe. artwork, they give input. cost and frequency of release? thats for management to be trusted with

Good point, my bad. I still stand by comment about them not caring enough to make good music

FishMonkeyMan
11-22-2006, 07:38 PM
ill preorder it soon enough.. i just havent yet.

KaraL
11-22-2006, 07:38 PM
you're saying this to a community where a lot of people download almost every show. LT5 fucking rocks. Every song of it.

I download a lot of shows too, but they are free. LT5 is too similar to Red Rocks for the majority of fans to be interested in. I don't even listen to it except for those 2 tracks I mentioned.

celluloid hero
11-22-2006, 07:40 PM
I download a lot of shows too, but they are free. LT5 is too similar to Red Rocks for the majority of fans to be interested in. I don't even listen to it except for those 2 tracks I mentioned.

so let me get this straight, lemme know if I'm off course. You download a lot of shows, I assume that means you listen to a lot of shows, so that's not the issue. You love Red Rocks, and LT5 is similar to Red Rocks, but you don't even listen to it except for 2 tracks. How does that make sense?

FishMonkeyMan
11-22-2006, 07:40 PM
maybe they should give up on the packaging and just do like phish/trey with more frequent releases that are audio only and dont cost them any money on packaging. i dont know why they arent doing that yet.

KaraL
11-22-2006, 07:41 PM
While I dont agree that LT 2/4/5 shouldnt have come out, I do agree that we shouldn't be at anything past LT3- regardless of what 3 they are.

Right. My point wasn't necessarily bashing those 3 shows in particular, it's just I don't see anything special about them deserving a release. Their average quality has tainted the whole point of Live Trax. But the biggest problem is the glut of releases, I mean I personally know a lot of fans that haven't even bought Fenway yet.

glennjamin
11-22-2006, 07:42 PM
Wait...but this album isn't a studio album so why be so spiteful about their short-comings in the studio recently and deny yourself the first thing, atleast dmb-related, they've done right in a while, especially from an era that we all love. This isn't new music, this is the classic music, played in a manner which wasn't done too often even back then. I'm surprised you're fluffing this one off Glenn. I thought out of anyone, someone who is fairly done with DMB would find themselves atleast happy about a live release sich as this one, a kind of pinnacle of how the band grew and what made people like you and me fans.

And I didn't mean to JUST purchase this release to send a message, rather that's an incentive along with purchasing this phenominal release.

I don't know, im just so bitter about the way everything has gone down the last couple of years. And im not saying this isnt a great release, because it is easily one of the top 3 shows ever. I just cant get into anything DMB right now. And I am past buying everything and anything dmb just because it's dmb. This would just sit on the shelf with the rest of my dmb shows.

I'm not saying I would never get this show, more than likely I will. But I just can't justify buying it now, 2 years ago I wouldnt have thought twice.

KaraL
11-22-2006, 07:46 PM
so let me get this straight, lemme know if I'm off course. You download a lot of shows, I assume that means you listen to a lot of shows, so that's not the issue. You love Red Rocks, and LT5 is similar to Red Rocks, but you don't even listen to it except for 2 tracks. How does that make sense?

What I typically do is download a show, listen to it once straight through, then hit the delete button unless it's a superb quality recording or I attended the show.

And I haven't listened to Red Rocks '95 in a couple years probably. I listened to it so much back in the day I got tired of it, so for me to enjoy something released a year ago that is 90% the same thing is difficult for me to do.

FishMonkeyMan
11-22-2006, 07:46 PM
I don't know, im just so bitter about the way everything has gone down the last couple of years. And im not saying this isnt a great release, because it is easily one of the top 3 shows ever. I just cant get into anything DMB right now. And I am past buying everything and anything dmb just because it's dmb. This would just sit on the shelf with the rest of my dmb shows.

I'm not saying I would never get this show, more than likely I will. But I just can't justify buying it now, 2 years ago I wouldnt have thought twice.

why did you move to this board if you are over dmb? i mean that as an honest question. i just dont get people who no longer care about this band continuing to post on a now dmb based board.

celluloid hero
11-22-2006, 07:48 PM
What I typically do is download a show, listen to it once straight through, then hit the delete button unless it's a superb quality recording or I attended the show.

And I haven't listened to Red Rocks '95 in a couple years probably. I listened to it so much back in the day I got tired of it, so for me to enjoy something released a year ago that is 90% the same thing is difficult for me to do.

so what you're saying is that you don't see the difference in a song from night to night?

glennjamin
11-22-2006, 07:49 PM
why did you move to this board if you are over dmb? i mean that as an honest question. i just dont get people who no longer care about this band continuing to post on a now dmb based board.

I click on the dmbc link at ufck and it brings me here. This place is no different to me than the last place except I have to click one more link.

And if you really do care. I do like a lot of the people here such as yourself, Mersh, Brandon, Bill etc (even though im sure most if not all of you can't stand me anymore :lol )

KaraL
11-22-2006, 07:50 PM
so what you're saying is that you don't see the difference in a song from night to night?

In DMB's music, mostly no. In the new songs from this summer sure, but with everything else nope

sarge
11-22-2006, 07:51 PM
In DMB's music, mostly no. In the new songs from this summer sure, but with everything else nope
really?

Fan#41
11-22-2006, 07:52 PM
I click on the dmbc link at ufck and it brings me here. This place is no different to me than the last place except I have to click one more link.

And if you really do care. I do like a lot of the people here such as yourself, Mersh, Brandon, Bill etc (even though im sure most if not all of you can't stand me anymore :lol )

Hey...who was one of the few that got ya free beer at Randalls...eh?

:bitchslap

glennjamin
11-22-2006, 07:53 PM
really?

I can't say that I really do either except for maybe a few of their songs. Granted, some songs have more energy than others but other than that I can't say that I do.

FishMonkeyMan
11-22-2006, 07:53 PM
I click on the dmbc link at ufck and it brings me here. This place is no different to me than the last place except I have to click one more link.

And if you really do care. I do like a lot of the people here such as yourself, Mersh, Brandon, Bill etc (even though im sure most if not all of you can't stand me anymore :lol )

i mean i dont mean it as insulting at all, and thats fair enough.. it just seems like some people are over the band, and thats fine, and i just dont personally understanding posting about the band if you are no longer a fan. it happens its not the end of the world, peoples tastes change.

Tomacco
11-22-2006, 07:53 PM
In DMB's music, mostly no.

What you're failing to see - that's basically why I love this band and have been to 35 shows.
You can't see a difference between Two Step from Red Rocks 95 and Two Step from Red Rocks 2005?

celluloid hero
11-22-2006, 07:54 PM
In DMB's music, mostly no. In the new songs from this summer sure, but with everything else nope

that sucks. I feel for you. You're missing one of the great things about being a DMB fan.

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 07:55 PM
In DMB's music, mostly no. In the new songs from this summer sure, but with everything else nope

I have to agree... while there are countless stand out versions each tour, including the last few, is seems in the last few years they have found something cool and done it to death. Example: jimi thing, proudest monkey, lovings wings...etc


With older shows I can listen to any of those songs from 2 consecutive nights (minus LWings) and others I didnt name, and be blown away for entirely different reasons each show. Nowadays, if there isnt a guest, i dont really bother unless someone on the boards highlights a version in review or download posting.

I see differences in songs year to year, even leg to leg of the same tour, at times... but anything that isnt new generally doesnt change enough anymore...

glennjamin
11-22-2006, 07:55 PM
Hey...who was one of the few that got ya free beer at Randalls...eh?

:bitchslap

:lol :lol

You probably got it for Mike and then felt bad for me :lmao

Mersh
11-22-2006, 07:56 PM
I have 100s of hours of shows and have been to many shows. There isn't THAT much difference between the songs night after night. SUre things get tweaked and changed here and there, but DMB is big on different. I am not complaining about it, but I see the point.

Fan#41
11-22-2006, 07:56 PM
:lol :lol

You probably got it for Mike and then felt bad for me :lmao

That's insulting! I got one for Mike and ME, and THEN I felt bad for you.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 07:58 PM
Nah. I really only want great new material now. These LT's are nice and all, but to me that's about it. Hearing Idea of You for the first time tops any experience I've had listening to LT's which I've heard AUD's of and have heard all the songs off of a million times. If I keep buying all these live releases before a good new studio album comes out, I'll honestly start to feel like those dorks who have bought all the dozens of re-re-re-re-releases of the Star Wars movies.

Yeah, but there are fans who like old material. I know you don't like old shows, but there are a lot of us who still like the classics. I don't see how it is anything like the STar Wars thing when none of these shows have been released before...not in this quality.

celluloid hero
11-22-2006, 07:58 PM
With older shows I can listen to any of those songs from 2 consecutive nights (minus LWings) and others I didnt name, and be blown away for entirely different reasons each show. Nowadays, if there isnt a guest, i dont really bother unless someone on the boards highlights a version in review or download posting.

Chris I think that's the opposite of what she's saying. (at least I hope "she" Kara and all...). She's saying 8.23 is a waste because she see's no difference between it and Red Rocks which was over 11 years ago.

glennjamin
11-22-2006, 07:59 PM
i mean i dont mean it as insulting at all, and thats fair enough.. it just seems like some people are over the band, and thats fine, and i just dont personally understanding posting about the band if you are no longer a fan. it happens its not the end of the world, peoples tastes change.

I'm not done and over with the band.

FishMonkeyMan
11-22-2006, 07:59 PM
I'm not done and over with the band.

misunderstood... sorry

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:00 PM
They are simply releasing too many shows with not enough time spread between them. I am even sick of them and I love DMB. I mean we just got all these live tracks from the BOWA bonus cd and encore disc and I haven't really even had a chance to enjoy these yet but here comes ANOTHER release already. Remember when Red Rocks '95 was release everyone was THRILLED and couldn't wait because we didn't have anything else. Hell even when Live in Chicago was released I couldn't wait to drive to Best Buy to buy it and pop it in the car and listen. I remember thinking "Oh wow, finally ASTB on CD!". DMB doesn't experiment enough for there to be major difference in versions of songs so now that we are to the point where almost every song has an official release there's really nothing to look forward to. The release of 12/8/98 was a great pick, but so soon after they release that godawful Golden Gate show. Live releases should be reserved for great shows and special moments in the band's career. Not random mediocre shit like LT2, LT4, LT5, Fenway. 12/31/96 should be Live Trax 3 right now, not 7.

If anything I'd like to see them release 6 at a time like Phish did. You could span the years and put out some real classics. That being said I am happy with the pace they come out now.

glennjamin
11-22-2006, 08:01 PM
misunderstood... sorry

No problem, I can definately see why you would think that.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:01 PM
Chris I think that's the opposite of what she's saying. (at least I hope "she" Kara and all...). She's saying 8.23 is a waste because she see's no difference between it and Red Rocks which was over 11 years ago.

If you listen to the songs both have in common there isn't really a difference. That being said that has always been the way it is and I get that.

glennjamin
11-22-2006, 08:02 PM
That's insulting! I got one for Mike and ME, and THEN I felt bad for you.

:lol

Oh and Mike gave his to me as well. :nutkick

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:03 PM
maybe they should give up on the packaging and just do like phish/trey with more frequent releases that are audio only and dont cost them any money on packaging. i dont know why they arent doing that yet.


the cost of cardboard and plastic must be killing them :thumbsup

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 08:03 PM
Chris I think that's the opposite of what she's saying. (at least I hope "she" Kara and all...). She's saying 8.23 is a waste because she see's no difference between it and Red Rocks which was over 11 years ago.

i was only half agreeing, shoulda said that. I can see her point as applied to more recent shows

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:04 PM
I am still surprised to see people say they don't care about older stuff and only want shows from the current tour. I mean people who post on the boards that is.

celluloid hero
11-22-2006, 08:04 PM
If you listen to the songs both have in common there isn't really a difference. That being said that has always been the way it is and I get that.

I've listened to Red Rocks so many times, every song on LT5 is very different to me.

FishMonkeyMan
11-22-2006, 08:04 PM
the cost of cardboard and plastic must be killing them :thumbsup

lets not forget manpower for putting them in ups envelopes

Fan#41
11-22-2006, 08:05 PM
:lol

Oh and Mike gave his to me as well. :nutkick

:lol

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 08:05 PM
the cost of cardboard and plastic must be killing them :thumbsup

especially when its designed, manufactured/burned, packaged, and shipped in house ;)

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:06 PM
I've listened to Red Rocks so many times, every song on LT5 is very different to me.

I mean obviously the solos have different notes and such, but overall I don't see how they are very different, but opinion and all I guess.

FishMonkeyMan
11-22-2006, 08:06 PM
I am still surprised to see people say they don't care about older stuff and only want shows from the current tour. I mean people who post on the boards that is.

ive never been more excited for a release since 12/8/98, and yet im not working right now so pre-ordering it right this second isnt a priority.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:06 PM
especially when its designed, manufactured/burned, packaged, and shipped in house ;)

Any sense of how much they make after all costs on an individual copy of LT?

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:07 PM
ive never been more excited for a release since 12/8/98, and yet im not working right now so pre-ordering it right this second isnt a priority.

well you have until like 2 days before it ships don't you? Let me check one of my 50 emails.

FishMonkeyMan
11-22-2006, 08:08 PM
well you have until like 2 days before it ships don't you? Let me check one of my 50 emails.

yeah im just saying thast why i havent yet... it has nothing to do with their choice.. this was the best one yet.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:08 PM
and I am actually excited for this release as well. I didn't evn buy the last 2 things they have put out.

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 08:09 PM
Any sense of how much they make after all costs on an individual copy of LT?

no, unfortunately...but im sure its much more than normal- consider that EVERYTHING- including promotion and sale, is done by Music Today... save for the sound work. Their overhead is lower, assuming they keep those services pretty booked up with work/releases from other bands as well.

FishMonkeyMan
11-22-2006, 08:10 PM
and I am actually excited for this release as well. I didn't evn buy the last 2 things they have put out.

the only releases i didnt buy were bowa and folsom dvd.

Yeedog
11-22-2006, 08:10 PM
because i just never got around to it... I'll pre-order it eventually.

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 08:11 PM
the only releases i didnt buy were bowa and folsom dvd.

i couldnt make myself by the gorge full set.... dave's voice is excruciating at times, and I just couldnt do it. I have the download and the auds, good enough for me (and Im a collector of their releases, etc)

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:12 PM
no, unfortunately...but im sure its much more than normal- consider that EVERYTHING- including promotion and sale, is done by Music Today... save for the sound work. Their overhead is lower, assuming they keep those services pretty booked up with work/releases from other bands as well.

so basically it is a good deal of money, but it still isn't enough money. Bah, maybe it is the quasi-hippie in me, but god damn...is there any interest in the fans other than when they have their wallets open?

FishMonkeyMan
11-22-2006, 08:12 PM
i couldnt make myself by the gorge full set.... dave's voice is excruciating at times, and I just couldnt do it. I have the download and the auds, good enough for me (and Im a collector of their releases, etc)

i bought the full set not the compilation, so i dont have that dvd but i dont count that becuase i bought the bigger release.. also, have the full red rocks, not the compilation, but im not counting that either.

FishMonkeyMan
11-22-2006, 08:13 PM
so basically it is a good deal of money, but it still isn't enough money. Bah, maybe it is the quasi-hippie in me, but god damn...is there any interest in the fans other than when they have their wallets open?

there is nothing wrong with them wanting to make as much money as they can from their craft.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:14 PM
there is nothing wrong with them wanting to make as much money as they can from their craft.

I understand how it works and I'm never one to actually yell sell out, but still...god forbid you make a boatload of money instead of a fucking shitload of money.

Tomacco
11-22-2006, 08:14 PM
Yeah, but there are fans who like old material. I know you don't like old shows, but there are a lot of us who still like the classics. I don't see how it is anything like the STar Wars thing when none of these shows have been released before...not in this quality.

It's not the shows I'm talking about really, it's the songs. I'm starting to care less and less when these WH e-mails show up saying "this show features memorable performances of Dancing Nancies, Proudest Monkey, and a splendid Watchtower featuring Eric Krasno". I like old material and shows of course. But it does just sometimes feel like I'm shelling out money for the same thing over and over again, like the Star Wars movies. LIOG with Bela is still LIOG. Warehouse with a passion intro is still Warehouse. You know what I mean?

My main point has less to do with all these live releases and more to do with the fact that I want great new material. I'd like to get a release with completely new songs that are worth getting very excited about for just being new great songs I've never heard before. Not the best versions of songs I've listened to a million times. Again, those are still great, and I love great versions of existing DMB songs (I wouldn't buy these LT's and go to shows if I didn't), but for me to really truly be excited again I need something new, not the "Return of the Jedi with remastered 5.1 sound and deleted scenes" of Seek Ups.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:16 PM
Basically I haven't liked the studio material they have put out in a long time so getting releases of classic shows that I do like is fine by me. I get your point and it is true, but if you give me shows like 12.31.96 I'll buy because I collect shows from DMB, Phish, Dead, etc...

at the same time though this is DMB and has been for a very long time. They even tour the same 30 (give or take) tunes every year and people were loving the last couple years.

Thena again I just don't listen to them on a level anywhere near the way I used to so when a release like this comes out I wasn't hearing Typical every day for 2 months before it.

Tomacco
11-22-2006, 08:20 PM
Basically I haven't liked the studio material they have put out in a long time so getting releases of classic shows that I do like is fine by me. I get your point and it is true, but if you give me shows like 12.31.96 I'll buy because I collect shows from DMB, Phish, Dead, etc...



Yep, same here (I own all the LT's). But it's just on a lower level of excitement than hearing a brand new amazing song for the first time - or dozen times for that matter, for me. I can understand how you've maybe kinda lost hope of that feeling happening again, since you haven't liked their new studio songs in a long time. Glad you understand where I was coming from now though.

jaking1185
11-22-2006, 08:21 PM
I think that 3 LiveTrax and a greatest hits CD is overkill for one year. They seem to really be trying to bleed the fanbase dry before we drift away. There probably should only be 2 LT a year spaced apart about 6 months.Having said that, the only thing I haven't bought yet is Fenway, which I suppose I will eventually.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:23 PM
Yep, same here (I own all the LT's). But it's just on a lower level of excitement than hearing a brand new amazing song for the first time - or dozen times for that matter, for me. I can understand how you've maybe kinda lost hope of that feeling happening again, since you haven't liked their new studio songs in a long time. Glad you understand where I was coming from now though.

Well I understand what you are saying, but I'll never get an 06 show being better than a show like this.:lol

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 08:23 PM
It's not the shows I'm talking about really, it's the songs. I'm starting to care less and less when these WH e-mails show up saying "this show features memorable performances of Dancing Nancies, Proudest Monkey, and a splendid Watchtower featuring Eric Krasno". I like old material and shows of course. But it does just sometimes feel like I'm shelling out money for the same thing over and over again, like the Star Wars movies. LIOG with Bela is still LIOG. Warehouse with a passion intro is still Warehouse. You know what I mean?

My main point has less to do with all these live releases and more to do with the fact that I want great new material. I'd like to get a release with completely new songs that are worth getting very excited about for just being new great songs I've never heard before. Not the best versions of songs I've listened to a million times. Again, those are still great, and I love great versions of existing DMB songs (I wouldn't buy these LT's and go to shows if I didn't), but for me to really truly be excited again I need something new, not the "Return of the Jedi with remastered 5.1 sound and deleted scenes" of Seek Ups. good comparison to SW, which i've lost interest in for the same reasons... the newer kept getting worse and worse, and they've overdone what was good about the originals, etc

(while those arent my EXACT feelings about dmb, i can see it in a general sense, especially factoring in the general opinions on the boards these days)

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:24 PM
I think that 3 LiveTrax and a greatest hits CD is overkill for one year. They seem to really be trying to bleed the fanbase dry before we drift away. There probably should only be 2 LT a year spaced apart about 6 months.Having said that, the only thing I haven't bought yet is Fenway, which I suppose I will eventually.

See this I don't agree with, but Phish did like 12 in a year and I bought them all so...

mattinmass
11-22-2006, 08:25 PM
honestly, i know it's illegal, but i really don't buy music anymore

tha'ts my reason

well that and I haven't listened to DMB in over a year (save for a couple new songs, and Dodo D/T)

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 08:27 PM
honestly, i know it's illegal, but i really don't buy music anymore

tha'ts my reason

youd be hard pressed to find people who dont do the same for the majority of their music, me included. I only buy if its DMB (and not always), or if it's good start to finish... but often not even then.

Tomacco
11-22-2006, 08:28 PM
Well I understand what you are saying, but I'll never get an 06 show being better than a show like this.:lol

Not sure if you were implying that I did, but I don't think I ever asserted any were better than 12/31/96. A 2006 release can get me more excited if a) I was at the show, or b) it features songs previously unreleased, or songs I think are currently being performed at their best. That's about it...and that wouldn't mean I think the 2006 show is better. It just means I have fond personal memories of it, or it suffers less from that Star Wars re-release syndrom I was talking about before, because unreleased full songs are included. 1996 shows certainly suffer the most from that SW thing since the older the songs the longer they've been around, and the more releases of the songs there already are.

mattinmass
11-22-2006, 08:28 PM
youd be hard pressed to find people who dont do the same for the majority of their music, me included. I only buy if its DMB (and not always), or if it's good start to finish... but often not even then.

i used to buy up EVERYTHING DMB-related - obviously they used to be my fav/obsessive-over band. the product just started to decline, my tastes changed, and that's where i'm at today...msg board addicted, still hoping they'll come out with a great new album, etc etc

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 08:31 PM
i used to buy up EVERYTHING DMB-related - obviously they used to be my fav/obsessive-over band. the product just started to decline, my tastes changed, and that's where i'm at today...msg board addicted, still hoping they'll come out with a great new album, etc etc

fair enough. thanks for the input :)

jaking1185
11-22-2006, 08:31 PM
See this I don't agree with, but Phish did like 12 in a year and I bought them all so...

I think the majority of the DMB fanbase is not as rabid as Phish fans. If they want to keep releasing shows at a fast rate that is fine, but they shouldn't expect them to be million sellers either. They must know roughly how many albums they will sell per release, so if they make a profit they are probably fine with it.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:32 PM
Not sure if you were implying that I did, but I don't think I ever asserted any were better than 12/31/96. A 2006 release can get me more excited if a) I was at the show, or b) it features songs previously unreleased, or songs I think are currently being performed at their best. That's about it...and that wouldn't mean I think the 2006 show is better. It just means I have fond personal memories of it, or it suffers less from that Star Wars re-release syndrom I was talking about before, because unreleased full songs are included.

Well, 06 has the newer material so I figured you'd think 06 > 12.31.96.

mattinmass
11-22-2006, 08:33 PM
that said, i have to say that I'm truly excited about this release and I enjoyed the Randalls shows this summer, so moderation is working a bit for me. i'll gladly spend money on tickets, i just am conditioned to download for free now

FishMonkeyMan
11-22-2006, 08:33 PM
I think that 3 LiveTrax and a greatest hits CD is overkill for one year. They seem to really be trying to bleed the fanbase dry before we drift away. There probably should only be 2 LT a year spaced apart about 6 months.Having said that, the only thing I haven't bought yet is Fenway, which I suppose I will eventually.

they should be viewing it like phish as people can pick and choose which ones they want and not care if people buy all of them because it wont happen...

on that note, im off to dodger stadium for the rolling stones... im sure ill post comments later...

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:34 PM
I think the majority of the DMB fanbase is not as rabid as Phish fans. If they want to keep releasing shows at a fast rate that is fine, but they shouldn't expect them to be million sellers either. They must know roughly how many albums they will sell per release, so if they make a profit they are probably fine with it.

This segment of the fanbase certainly is...that being said I don't think they (phish) cared if they were huge sellers or not because all the proceeds went to charity and they did it for the fans.

according to Pride they aren't fine with it though.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:35 PM
i used to buy up EVERYTHING DMB-related - obviously they used to be my fav/obsessive-over band. the product just started to decline, my tastes changed, and that's where i'm at today...msg board addicted, still hoping they'll come out with a great new album, etc etc

:upyours

Tomacco
11-22-2006, 08:36 PM
Well, 06 has the newer material so I figured you'd think 06 > 12.31.96.

Heh, just so this is never assumed, DMB's older material trumps their newer material in almost every way. No question. A 2006 release at this point in time only interests me more because it's the most likely to feature the most previously unreleased material, whereas a 1996 show will have the 15th releases of Too Much, So Much to Say, Crash, Two Step, etc. Heh, alright, enough beating a dead horse.

jaking1185
11-22-2006, 08:36 PM
This segment of the fanbase certainly is...that being said I don't think they (phish) cared if they were huge sellers or not because all the proceeds went to charity and they did it for the fans.

according to Pride they aren't fine with it though.

I think management has a somewhat delusional view that ALL the fans will buy whatever is put out. Some of us do, but I think there is leakage of the rabid fanbase to other bands. They need to be more realistic.

mattinmass
11-22-2006, 08:37 PM
i agree it's a business - but it's also an artistic endeavor, and I would think if they had the integrity that I would like to think they have, they'd take a hard look at when the machine overwhelms the art and everything suffers...wouldn't you think?

i think Phish nailed this aspect (whether it was the real reason for the break-up or not), at least in the media this was the main reason - integrity and respect for their art won out

jaking1185
11-22-2006, 08:39 PM
i agree it's a business - but it's also an artistic endeavor, and I would think if they had the integrity that I would like to think they have, they'd take a hard look at when the machine overwhelms the art and everything suffers...wouldn't you think?

i think Phish nailed this aspect (whether it was the real reason for the break-up or not), at least in the media this was the main reason - integrity and respect for their art won out

Very good point. That is the problem right now.

mattinmass
11-22-2006, 08:40 PM
i'm not saying tha'ts the only problem - could be a host of others, but i bet it's a big contributor

especially if the band feels pressure on these things (re: LT7 crap sales), when does the band feel pressure to perform for the "company" ??? i'd be interested to hear their take on this

i know that pressure overwhelmed trey at least

Tomacco
11-22-2006, 08:41 PM
I think management has a somewhat delusional view that ALL the fans will buy whatever is put out. Some of us do, but I think there is leakage of the rabid fanbase to other bands. They need to be more realistic.

I can understand that view though. After all this is a band that was popularized because of this 'collecting shows' rabidness, and is still one of the very few bands where its fans tape and listen to every show of every tour. I'd yell "sell-out" once Dave and the band forbids taping shows. But until then I find it pretty hard to be angry with the way they sell their music when there are hundreds of shows full of completely free music floating around between fans and on the internet.

KaraL
11-22-2006, 08:42 PM
You can't see a difference between Two Step from Red Rocks 95 and Two Step from Red Rocks 2005?

Well obviously there's a huge difference there. But we're talking about the '95 releases. Two Step from a week later isn't going to be different.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:43 PM
i agree it's a business - but it's also an artistic endeavor, and I would think if they had the integrity that I would like to think they have, they'd take a hard look at when the machine overwhelms the art and everything suffers...wouldn't you think?

i think Phish nailed this aspect (whether it was the real reason for the break-up or not), at least in the media this was the main reason - integrity and respect for their art won out

Agreed

Agreed again, even well before the break up they did it right IMO.

Tomacco
11-22-2006, 08:44 PM
Well obviously there's a huge difference there. But we're talking about the '95 releases. Two Step from a week later isn't going to be different.

Oh ok, yeah I agree with you there. LT5, while a great great show, did excite me the least of the LT's because Red Rocks is pretty similar.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:44 PM
But until then I find it pretty hard to be angry with the way they sell their music when there are hundreds of shows full of completely free music floating around between fans and on the internet.

Yeah, but at the same time being upset over lower sales when they allow that stuff is silly IMO.

jaking1185
11-22-2006, 08:44 PM
I can understand that view though. After all this is a band that was popularized because of this 'collecting shows' rabidness, and is still one of the very few bands where its fans tape and listen to every show of every tour. I'd yell "sell-out" once Dave and the band forbids taping shows. But until then I find it pretty hard to be angry with the way they sell their music when there are hundreds of shows full of completely free music floating around between fans and on the internet.

I agree. I think the band and management are not on the same page right now. That is why BOWA was delivered as "contractual obligation" instead of a celebration of past achievements. The live music probably was a compromise.

Tomacco
11-22-2006, 08:48 PM
Yeah, but at the same time being upset over lower sales when they allow that stuff is silly IMO.

Yeah, that is silly. I think I missed it, but is there some confirmation that the management is in some kinda of fury about low sales of LT's? I can't imagine the profits are all that massive for these, since they're made in minimal quantities and only intended for the internet fans. They should be concerned with how the new studio albums and in-store live releases do.

Either way, seems to me DMB (the band members themselves) are all about the spreading of their music freely anyways. They don't know shit about this LiveTrax stuff. At Farm Aid the guy interviewing Dave kept insisting two releases were coming out (referring to LT6 and BOWA) and Dave kept insisting he was wrong and talking to the wrong people, and that they're just working on a new studio album.

mattinmass
11-22-2006, 08:48 PM
Yeah, but at the same time being upset over lower sales when they allow that stuff is silly IMO.

agreed - part of me is a bit letdown about it really. all my joking about cap$haw, etc was pretty half-hearted but the more you see the way things work with this band, the more you realize it's all about the business and less and less about the art.
what does dmbpride do for the band? i don't even know/remember...

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:50 PM
agreed - part of me is a bit letdown about it really. all my joking about cap$haw, etc was pretty half-hearted but the more you see the way things work with this band, the more you realize it's all about the business and less and less about the art.
what does dmbpride do for the band? i don't even know/remember...

I completely agree

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:50 PM
Yeah, that is silly. I think I missed it, but is there some confirmation that the management is in some kinda of fury about low sales of LT's?

Well, that is sort of why the thread was started.

mattinmass
11-22-2006, 08:51 PM
best part of the thread is smittay vouching for glennjamin though :lol

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:51 PM
best part of the thread is smittay vouching for glennjamin though :lol

ah smits

mattinmass
11-22-2006, 08:53 PM
mersh - i was watching the clifford ball mtv documentary on youtube today and getting pretty damn nostalgic for the mid-90s...we are getting old

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:54 PM
mersh - i was watching the clifford ball mtv documentary on youtube today and getting pretty damn nostalgic for the mid-90s...we are getting old

did you see me?

and yes, yes we are.

mattinmass
11-22-2006, 08:54 PM
you were either the w00k that got married, or the w00k that got taped down by the cops right?

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:55 PM
you were either the w00k that got married, or the w00k that got taped down by the cops right?

ah, my wedding memories...

Tomacco
11-22-2006, 08:56 PM
Well, that is sort of why the thread was started.

First post says management is "surprised" about lower-than-expected sales. I didn't really take that as being upset, somehow. I figured lower-than-expected sales on this didn't really amount to that much less money anyways. Plus, it's only been a few days since it was announced.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 08:57 PM
First post says management is "surprised" about lower-than-expected sales. I didn't really take that as being upset, somehow. I figured lower-than-expected sales on this didn't really amount to that much less money anyways. Plus, it's only been a few days since it was announced.


yeah, but it was followed by "if people don't buy this they will get releases they don't want."

Tomacco
11-22-2006, 08:59 PM
yeah, but it was followed by "if people don't buy this they will get releases they don't want."

Haha, yeah, but I think that's BS/irrelevant since that'll happen anyways. I expect this series will always continue to bring a mix of old and new shows. And I have no problem with that.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 09:00 PM
Haha, yeah, but I think that's BS/irrelevant since that'll happen anyways. I expect this series will always continue to bring a mix of old and new shows. And I have no problem with that.

I agree, but the notion that that is their mindset...

KaraL
11-22-2006, 09:04 PM
Having little quality new material over the past 6 years is obviously a huge problem as well like some of you have said. Only so many times I can be talked into buying a cd with SMTS-->Too Much, Ants, and Crash highlighting.

KaraL
11-22-2006, 09:05 PM
I think that 3 LiveTrax and a greatest hits CD is overkill for one year. They seem to really be trying to bleed the fanbase dry before we drift away. There probably should only be 2 LT a year spaced apart about 6 months.Having said that, the only thing I haven't bought yet is Fenway, which I suppose I will eventually.

"Only 2 a year"? 1 Live release a year is more than sufficient given the glut of material they've released lately.

Tomacco
11-22-2006, 09:08 PM
Good discussion, by the way. I've been enjoying my stay at TDC a lot so far. :upyours

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 09:18 PM
Yeah, but at the same time being upset over lower sales when they allow that stuff is silly IMO.

dont confuse a lack of understanding why fan response (sales) is lower than expected, with management being "upset." Furthermore, I do not in any way speak directly for the band or management... off or on the record. I am just telling you what I have heard- a bit of surprise that what they saw as a big steak being tossed to rabid and demanding fans, and not seeing interest the only when they can gauge interest- with sales.


First post says management is "surprised" about lower-than-expected sales. I didn't really take that as being upset, somehow. I figured lower-than-expected sales on this didn't really amount to that much less money anyways. Plus, it's only been a few days since it was announced.

bingo

KaraL
11-22-2006, 09:22 PM
dont confuse a lack of understanding why fan response (sales) is lower than expected, with management being "upset." Furthermore, I do not in any way speak directly for the band or management... off or on the record. I am just telling you what I have heard- a bit of surprise that what they saw as a big steak being tossed to rabid and demanding fans, and not seeing interest the only when they can gauge interest- with sales.




bingo

This is simple.

It's the same exact reason when people post on message boards "OMG they don't play Spoon and You Never Know enough" and when DMB does bring stuff like this back, the majority of the venue empties towards the bathroom and the band thinks WTF. These message boards which made constant "release 12/31/96!!" posts do not represent the biggest portion of this fanbase, period.

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 09:26 PM
yeah, but it was followed by "if people don't buy this they will get releases they don't want."

again, that was my take- they had by far the greatest responses to GGP and Fenway, as well as the first live trax (bc it was new, i'm sure). This is performing less than expected in sales so far, and while they didn't expect as huge a demand by any means, for this (as the 'hardcores' are a vastly smaller group these days than the radio/mainstream fans), they DID hope for better than theyre seeing now. If this does at best as well as LT3,4,5... then there is no real incentive- fan requests aside- to put out shows like this over shows like Fenway.

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 09:29 PM
I think we're on the same page here... it's good to see 8 pages of pretty constructive input and discussion- and as Tomacco said, I'm enjoying this place so far :) Thanks guys

Mersh
11-22-2006, 09:32 PM
then there is no real incentive- fan requests aside- to put out shows like this over shows like Fenway.

I guess I'm done with the LT series after this then.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 09:34 PM
This is simple.

It's the same exact reason when people post on message boards "OMG they don't play Spoon and You Never Know enough" and when DMB does bring stuff like this back, the majority of the venue empties towards the bathroom and the band thinks WTF. These message boards which made constant "release 12/31/96!!" posts do not represent the biggest portion of this fanbase, period.

Right, but LT shouldn;t be about the biggest portion of the fanbase. I thought it was about getting quality recordings of classics out to the bigger fans...shouldn't be surprised that it is getting releases out to the bigger fans until they aren't emptying their pockets enough.

over the top?

bigtrain21
11-22-2006, 09:36 PM
I think we're on the same page here... it's good to see 8 pages of pretty constructive input and discussion- and as Tomacco said, I'm enjoying this place so far :) Thanks guys

I agree this is a great discussion.

When you guys are looking at the relative low sales are you comparing them to the sales 5 days into each of the other releases or in whole. I have to think that the sales for this 5 days in have to be just as good or better than any of the Live Trax releases.

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 09:38 PM
Right, but LT shouldn;t be about the biggest portion of the fanbase. I thought it was about getting quality recordings of classics out to the bigger fans...shouldn't be surprised that it is getting releases out to the bigger fans until they aren't emptying their pockets enough.

over the top?

how did you come to that view of it?

it's a business, that's trying to do something that it thinks fans will respond well to. I dont recall it ever being "to release classics for the bigger fans"... even if money wasnt at all apart of this, they consider all of their fans as much as possible, which includes the majority of fans that aren't "us"

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 09:42 PM
I have to think that the sales for this 5 days in have to be just as good or better than any of the Live Trax releases.

they're not- that's why the curiosity started... i don't think they're BAD by any means, but they're not on par or exceeding (as expected) other LT's.

However, as someone pointed out earlier, there has been a market flood lately... aside from the 2006 releases prior to this fall, there was a live disc and bonus disc preceding this by a matter of days... which rules out alot of potential curiosity from the common fans.

bigtrain21
11-22-2006, 09:47 PM
they're not- that's why the curiosity started... they're not BAD by any means, but they're not on par or exceeding (as expected) other LT's.

However, as someone pointed out earlier, there has been a market flood lately... aside from the 2006 releases prior to this fall, there was a live disc and bonus disc preceding this by a matter of days... which rules out alot of potential curiosity from the common fans.

But by now it is hard to tell because it is 5 days after the anouncement. I took my wallet out when I read the thread title on the first day it was anounced but in reality it doesn't matter if you preorder the day before it is released or when the preorder is announced initially. I think they should just give it some time before coming to the conclusion that this LT won't sell well...

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 09:50 PM
But by now it is hard to tell because it is 5 days after the anouncement. I took my wallet out when I read the thread title on the first day it was anounced but in reality it doesn't matter if you preorder the day before it is released or when the preorder is announced initially. I think they should just give it some time before coming to the conclusion that this LT won't sell well...

they didnt conclude anything, and are still expecting more sales...esp as Christmas comes nearer. They're just suprised... I guess the other LT's had a better response right off the announcement :) Since there is still time in the preorder, i was encouraging anyone who was considering buying it, to do so- to send a reaffirming message to them that they made a good move, and should continue such moves.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 09:51 PM
how did you come to that view of it?

it's a business, that's trying to do something that it thinks fans will respond well to. I dont recall it ever being "to release classics for the bigger fans"... even if money wasnt at all apart of this, they consider all of their fans as much as possible, which includes the majority of fans that aren't "us"

I thought that was the idea behind it when it first started. Guess I was wrong. I'm clearly the only one who cares that its about the cash though (even though I understand that in reality it is a business) so I should stop.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 09:52 PM
^they didnt conclude anything, and are still expecting more sales...esp as Christmas comes nearer. They're just suprised... I guess the other LT's had a better response right off the announcement :) Since there is still time in the preorder, i was encouraging anyone who was considering buying it, to do so- to send a reaffirming message to them that they made a good move, and should continue such moves.


My fault then, I took it as it isn't selling enough so you guys are getting releases you don't want from now on.

Mersh
11-22-2006, 09:53 PM
But by now it is hard to tell because it is 5 days after the anouncement. I took my wallet out when I read the thread title on the first day it was anounced but in reality it doesn't matter if you preorder the day before it is released or when the preorder is announced initially. I think they should just give it some time before coming to the conclusion that this LT won't sell well...

agreed

bigtrain21
11-22-2006, 09:55 PM
they didnt conclude anything, and are still expecting more sales...esp as Christmas comes nearer. They're just suprised... I guess the other LT's had a better response right off the announcement :) Since there is still time in the preorder, i was encouraging anyone who was considering buying it, to do so- to send a reaffirming message to them that they made a good move, and should continue such moves.

That really suprises me because that was the quickest I had ever ordered a LT and from what I saw from the board I wasn't even close to the first one to buy it because I saw it so late in the day. The initial reception reception (and current attitude) toward this release was great. I just wonder if maybe people aren't buying because it is 3 CD's instead of 2...:lol

bigtrain21
11-22-2006, 09:57 PM
My fault then, I took it as it isn't selling enough so you guys are getting releases you don't want from now on.

Actually that is how I took it as well. It just seems like trying to gather info that this is not what we want because 5 days in the sales are lagging is kind of jumping the gun.

Smittay
11-22-2006, 09:57 PM
hey, youll always have time to buy 12.31.96 livetrax, its not like they disappear off the grid, they'll always show up as part of a package of livetrax's 1-189 with dmb tshirt, thong, fleshlight autographed by butch and a dmb trapper keeper...

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 09:58 PM
That really suprises me because that was the quickest I had ever ordered a LT and from what I saw from the board I wasn't even close to the first one to buy it because I saw it so late in the day. The initial reception reception (and current attitude) toward this release was great. I just wonder if maybe people aren't buying because it is 3 CD's instead of 2...:lol

yeah i was shocked to hear that as well, honestly.

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 10:00 PM
My fault then, I took it as it isn't selling enough so you guys are getting releases you don't want from now on.

not as harsh as that, but its a fact- they will sell what makes money. since this- for whatever reasons- isnt selling as well so far, and happens to be a fan-request, they will take it into account for the future. There is still preorder time left, and obviously infinite time after... but pre-order indicates alot about a release's popularity, and one that should get the fans excited did not have as many immediate excitement shown via sales

bigtrain21
11-22-2006, 10:02 PM
yeah i was shocked to hear that as well, honestly.

Could the date it is being released have something to do with it? It seems to me that if you release a show during the season when people are checking the site more often because they are going to the shows there would be more of a surge soon after a show is released. When, a show offered in the offseason is really not fair to compare sales to a show offered after the tour is over.

bigtrain21
11-22-2006, 10:03 PM
they will sell what makes money. since this- for whatever reasons- isnt selling as well so far, and happens to be a fan-request, they will take it into account for the future.

Then they are taking the first 5 days of a presale into account? That really is silly.

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 10:06 PM
Then they are taking the first 5 days of a presale into account? That really is silly.

they've also sent out emails to everyone on their newsletter list... 2 emails or so already? think of it in terms of movie releases... they measure popularity often by opening weekend, although the end/over-time sales do matter as well.

trippinbillyrmc
11-22-2006, 10:14 PM
Hey Chris,

My excuse is plain and simple. If I order it, it takes up to 6 weeks to get it in the mail and it seems every time i have something sent, it shows up poorly packaged and damaged.

Prime example is my CP preorder. I did not receive my order till mid january, the cd case was cracked and the whole package (shirt, cd, sticker, bonus disc, and whatever else was in it) all came in 1 big flimsy bubble wrap envelope. It showed me how concerned they were about customer service.

I will buy the flacs online when they come out.

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 10:15 PM
Hey Chris,

My excuse is plain and simple. If I order it, it takes up to 6 weeks to get it in the mail and it seems every time i have something sent, it shows up poorly packaged and damaged.

Prime example is my CP preorder. I did not receive my order till mid january, the cd case was cracked and the whole package (shirt, cd, sticker, bonus disc, and whatever else was in it all came in 1 big flimsy bubble wrap envelope.

I will buy the flacs online when they come out.fair enough, and ive had the same problems with other things, including fenway. I will relay that as well- thanks :)

trippinbillyrmc
11-22-2006, 10:18 PM
fair enough, and ive had the same problems with other things, including fenway. I will relay that as well- thanks :)

I would purchase the whole series if I could be assured that the package i am getting is well protected and will arrive in mint condition.

trippinbillyrmc
11-22-2006, 10:21 PM
fair enough, and ive had the same problems with other things, including fenway. I will relay that as well- thanks :)

And to add to this, I don't think priority shipping to Canada is available????

IrishRed
11-22-2006, 10:23 PM
i snagged it first day. i greatly enjoy the LT series. i find myself listening to those albums more than anything else.
i'm with you. i STILL listen to LT1 once or twice a week. I'm sure 7 will be no different.:nod

bigtrain21
11-22-2006, 10:25 PM
they've also sent out emails to everyone on their newsletter list... 2 emails or so already? think of it in terms of movie releases... they measure popularity often by opening weekend, although the end/over-time sales do matter as well.

But with a movie release you know about that months ahead of time. We just found out about this a few days ago, so that comparison is really not fair.

Tomacco
11-22-2006, 10:28 PM
And to add to this, I don't think priority shipping to Canada is available????

I never get anything from the WH shipped to me here. Every year I get my WH package like 2 months later than everyone else, and the one time I ordered something to come here (Some Devil) it took like 7 weeks and costed like 10+ bucks to ship it. Since then I've had all my stuff sent to relatives in the US, or have purchased it at shows.

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 10:29 PM
But with a movie release you know about that months ahead of time. We just found out about this a few days ago, so that comparison is really not fair.

true. well, im just saying... it may not be the complete indication but they do look at it.



Ryan- as far as the shipping... it's probably something to do with the border cross and not them. I had trouble sending things quickly to CAN when Lisa was still there... if I wanted speed, i had to pay insane cost for it...they probably assume paying more for shipping than the item isnt something most people would be up for

batleon
11-22-2006, 10:31 PM
Shit, I was afraid this was going to happen. :lol

I know the DMB camp is looking to make money, that's why I've been telling everybody I know who's even a casual fan to order this show. I've been preaching about how great it is because I knew if this release sells well it's a sign that more fan requested shows will be released.

A preorder is a hard sell for a casual fan though, They don't want to order now and get it a month from now. Most of the people I've talked to will most likely order it at some point, but probably not until after the release date.

Good to get some input from someone on the inside though, especially DMBPride, since many a DMB recording of mine is accompanied by his cover art. Any way we can find out how well the other Live Trax shows sold? Not actual numbers, just which sold better than others. I know that's something a lot of people were curious about.

wildcats
11-22-2006, 10:32 PM
because i've already dropped way, way too much money on the Dave Matthews Band

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 10:33 PM
Any way we can find out how well the other Live Trax shows sold? Not actual numbers, just which sold better than others. I know that's something a lot of people were curious about.

I think they said Fenway was the most, GGP was alot, and after that v1 and then v4. Don't hold me to that, but I asked last week and am pretty sure that is what I got.

bigtrain21
11-22-2006, 10:34 PM
I think they said Fenway was the most, GGP was alot, and after that v1 and then v4. Don't hold me to that, but I asked last week and am pretty sure that is what I got.


Listen, you can't compare fenway to the rest. It just really is not fair to compare a store relased LT to the rest of them...

alexbunke
11-22-2006, 10:34 PM
I think they said Fenway was the most, GGP was alot, and after that v1 and then v4. Don't hold me to that, but I asked last week and am pretty sure that is what I got.If you play your cards right, you could easily be the best thing to ever happen to us (the crazy fans).

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 10:36 PM
Listen, you can't compare fenway to the rest. It just really is not fair to compare a store relased LT to the rest of them...

dont consider it store-release. It was, but I cant emphasize how limited compared to any other store release. Besides, he asked about the other LT's, so I told him

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 10:38 PM
If you play your cards right, you could easily be the best thing to ever happen to us (the crazy fans).

haha, i dont know about that. Fan#41 and the tapers trump anything I can offer.

The point of this thread is to make a point. If you ask for something, it's good to show interest when it comes, whatever that entails... to ensure more frequent recognition of requests

bigtrain21
11-22-2006, 10:41 PM
dont consider it store-release. It was, but I cant emphasize how limited compared to any other store release. Besides, he asked about the other LT's, so I told him


I didn't mean that to come off as attacking or anything. I just really think that the Fenway LT being released in stores had the most to do with it being the best selling, even as limited as you say it was. People on the boards like this are 10X more excited about the 12.31.96 than they were about the Fenway LT...

Tomacco
11-22-2006, 10:43 PM
I didn't mean that to come off as attacking or anything. I just really think that the Fenway LT being released in stores had the most to do with it being the best selling, even as limited as you say it was. People on the boards like this are 10X more excited about the 12.31.96 than they were about the Fenway LT...

But I think the only reason they put out a limited number of LT6's in stores was because the initial demand for it through the WH was so high. I can't imagine the store release made a big difference, because from my experience at least, it was very hard to find, and was a rip-off price-wise.

bigtrain21
11-22-2006, 10:44 PM
The point of this thread is to make a point. If you ask for something, it's good to show interest when it comes, whatever that entails... to ensure more frequent recognition of requests

I truly understand this point, but I would assume that the powers that be are also able to understand the circumstances of why this release after 5 days may be lagging behind the other ones...

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 10:45 PM
I truly understand this point, but I would assume that the powers that be are also able to understand the circumstances of why this release after 5 days may be lagging behind the other ones...

honestly, im sure they do :)

bigtrain21
11-22-2006, 10:46 PM
But I think the only reason they put out a limited number of LT6's in stores was because the initial demand for it through the WH was so high. I can't imagine the store release made a big difference, because from my experience at least, it was very hard to find, and was a rip-off price-wise.

Was LT6 marketed to fans that came to the shows following it's release or announced release? I think that would be a factor as well...

batleon
11-22-2006, 10:51 PM
I think they said Fenway was the most, GGP was alot, and after that v1 and then v4. Don't hold me to that, but I asked last week and am pretty sure that is what I got.

Thanks, I think that's about what most people expected, though I am suprised that v4 outsold v3. I'd expect low numbers from 5 because the setlist was so similar to Red Rocks. I've only bought the odd numbered releases myself. And I was AT Fenway N2.

bigtrain21
11-22-2006, 10:52 PM
because

i have 42 versions of crush on my computer from livetrax's and WH and RR and bonus pre-order discs on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on

why would anyone need anymore?? the average joe will ask...

seriously RCA/dmb is killing their fans by overloading them with too much of the concerts they DONT want...

so nobody's biting

hint rca.... listen to your internet fans for GOOD releases

dont make up stupid best versions live for TBOWA disc 2 all from 03-06, come on, dont put fake crowd and auto tune on for livetraxs

NOBODY
LIKES
IT

it will come back and bite you

then when you release an actual GOOD show like 12.31.96, why would you expect anybody's gonna buy it?

the average joe doesn't know the difference, that 12.31.96 was phenomonal... he just thinks its the same crap like the other livetrax 4 from 1996

use your head, listen to your fans...not your wallets capshaw,

call me if you want some advice, kims got my number...

chris, be a good little graphic gopher and deliver this straight back to RCA, okay?

I think the most amazing thing about this thread is that Smittay was able to come up with a response this long within 3 minutes of reading the first post in the thread... :lol

DMBpride
11-22-2006, 10:55 PM
I think the most amazing thing about this thread is that Smittay was able to come up with a response this long within 3 minutes of reading the first post in the thread... :lol

im pretty certain he had it written already and was waiting for the right thread to drop it :lol

firedancer1961
11-22-2006, 10:58 PM
Thanks Smitty :lol

I'll admit I have no one to blame but myself. 50 someodd shows in 8 years will do that to you. Not to mention they don't really make good music anymore.

I've seen them like 60x in the past 8 years, with like half of those being in the past 3 years (so NOT at their peak!) and yet I am not bored with them in the least. When I listen to music I listen to them less than half the time so I don't get bored w/ it, but I never tire of the shows or the music as a whole. In spite of the lesser quality recent releases I'd still rather hear mediocre DMB than most other bands best stuff.

But it's not for everyone - I know a lot of people got burned out on them. But I don't get why you still want to post on a DMB board - what's the point?

KaraL
11-22-2006, 11:07 PM
not as harsh as that, but its a fact- they will sell what makes money. since this- for whatever reasons- isnt selling as well so far, and happens to be a fan-request, they will take it into account for the future. There is still preorder time left, and obviously infinite time after... but pre-order indicates alot about a release's popularity, and one that should get the fans excited did not have as many immediate excitement shown via sales

Well they did it to themselves. A lot of more casual fans that bought LT4 will NOT even consider buying this because they look at the setlist and the date of the show and think 'same thing'. It's a lesson they need to learn to not flood the market with a product that doesn't have the same demand it used to.

KaraL
11-22-2006, 11:08 PM
Hey Chris,

My excuse is plain and simple. If I order it, it takes up to 6 weeks to get it in the mail and it seems every time i have something sent, it shows up poorly packaged and damaged.

Prime example is my CP preorder. I did not receive my order till mid january, the cd case was cracked and the whole package (shirt, cd, sticker, bonus disc, and whatever else was in it) all came in 1 big flimsy bubble wrap envelope. It showed me how concerned they were about customer service.

I will buy the flacs online when they come out.

They treat people like this then they get upset when people obtain the Live Traxs illegally.

firedancer1961
11-22-2006, 11:10 PM
they didnt conclude anything, and are still expecting more sales...esp as Christmas comes nearer. They're just suprised... I guess the other LT's had a better response right off the announcement :) Since there is still time in the preorder, i was encouraging anyone who was considering buying it, to do so- to send a reaffirming message to them that they made a good move, and should continue such moves.

I am definitely planning to buy it but there is not much incentive to preorder. What do you get? A sticker and a drawing entry with a 1 in a million chance of winning something I don't really want. I already have so much I that I haven't had time to listen to I am in no big hurry to get this. I did preorder BOWA (because that had a good incentive). Like everyone is saying it's one after the other. I am psyched for this one, but I like to wait until I am ready to order a few things to save on shipping... Hopefully they will take into account overall sales, not just pre-orders.

KaraL
11-22-2006, 11:10 PM
I think they said Fenway was the most, GGP was alot, and after that v1 and then v4. Don't hold me to that, but I asked last week and am pretty sure that is what I got.

Not surprised that Golden Gate did well. Even though the show sucks and the mix is unlistenable, it's something NEW. "Ooh soundboards of Hello Again, Sugar Will, and Joy Ride.. *adds to cart*. If they released another 2004 show, it wouldn't sell anywhere near as well.

groove merchant
11-22-2006, 11:14 PM
fuck me...it never ends. have a little love for whats coming our way...last time i checked top notch acts were high paid folk and DMb has thrown us a serious bone with the taping policy. i guess it comes down to is some of us still appreciate what we do get.

batleon
11-22-2006, 11:22 PM
Also, are people complaining that they are releasing too much? I'm pretty happy with what we're getting, think about the variety of releases this year, there is something for everybody here.

Amazing when you think about it. From '97-'03 only 6 full shows were released. Since then we've had 15 full shows released. Granted, only half of them are high quality, but that's still 7-8 good shows released in the last three years. This is nothing to complain about.

bsan83
11-22-2006, 11:29 PM
They've just lost so many of the "hardcores" in the last 2 years. I wonder if they understand how much Stand Up, the '05 tour, and how the '06 tour sputtered to a brutal finish killed what was left of this segment of the fanbase.

batleon
11-22-2006, 11:30 PM
They've just lost so many of the "hardcores" in the last 2 years. I wonder if they understand how much Stand Up, the '05 tour, and how the '06 tour sputtered to a brutal finish hurt this segment of the fanbase.

I wonder how much they cared?

And that's a serious question, not some kind of snarky response.

bsan83
11-22-2006, 11:34 PM
I wonder how much they cared?

And that's a serious question, not some kind of snarky response.

It's obvious they do care if the slow response to this is confusing/bothering them.

Marjorie
11-22-2006, 11:35 PM
I wonder how much they cared?

And that's a serious question, not some kind of snarky response.


It seems short sighted from a business sense not to care- I have a hard time believing that the majority of their merchandise is sold to the casual fan not to mention the people who buy tickets to multiple shows

heather2084
11-22-2006, 11:37 PM
for me its not that their releasing too much i guess, though having the same songs on every live release is getting a little boring.

Main thing is, its too much money. Even going with regular shipping, its too much for me to spend, and I'd love to have them bcuz I'm a package freak. I think I maybe own three LT releases, one being Fenway bcuz you can pick it up in the store.

Not to mention, the tapers are awesome, and I can get a great version usually. If they were to be releasing things we didn't have tapes of, or had really shitty tapes of, then that would be a different story.

bsan83
11-22-2006, 11:37 PM
It seems short sighted from a business sense not to care- I have a hard time believing that the majority of their merchandise is sold to the casual fan not to mention the people who buy tickets to multiple shows

That segment of the fanbase that does buy multiple tickets per tour has flat out collapsed the last two years, and when next year's tour rolls around, unless we see a mindblowing tracklisting and the clips of new songs that are on the album really blow people away, it's going to be felt even more.

Marjorie
11-22-2006, 11:39 PM
That segment of the fanbase that does buy multiple tickets per tour has flat out collapsed the last two years, and when next year's tour rolls around, unless we see a mindblowing tracklisting and the clips of new songs that are on the album really blow people away, it's going to be felt even more.

it will be interesting to see if they change anything as a result. more 'special event' kind of shows to pull people back in?

bsan83
11-22-2006, 11:42 PM
it will be interesting to see if they change anything as a result. more 'special event' kind of shows to pull people back in?

The last two years they've tried making it up with bringing back old songs, playing special venues, etc. to try "throw bones to the hardcores" to keep us around, and that couldn't be further from the correct point of view they should take.

Honestly, the only thing that's going to reverse the tide is a really good album. That's it. No special venues or rare songs are going to excite and energize the fanbase nearly as much as signs that this band has gas in the tank, especially given how a "bring back old tunes" tour like this one ended so absolutely dreadfully.

celluloid hero
11-22-2006, 11:48 PM
That segment of the fanbase that does buy multiple tickets per tour has flat out collapsed the last two years, and when next year's tour rolls around, unless we see a mindblowing tracklisting and the clips of new songs that are on the album really blow people away, it's going to be felt even more.

I would like to challenge this a bit. The fans that were buying tickets to 15 shows a year 5 years ago are 5 years older, life has started to kick in for a lot of them. The new music isn't developing the hardcore following they had before. You mention the Stand Up release and 05 tour, which are legitimate, but the 2006 tour "stuttering" bothered you more than any of the 1000 people on that message board, I think you're projecting that one a bit. You obviously didn't keep 2003 in mind all year where the first run was the songs they don't normally play because they don't really like playing, but they did for us for awhile, then got tired of playing them. (my guess)

bsan83
11-22-2006, 11:53 PM
I would like to challenge this a bit. The fans that were buying tickets to 15 shows a year 5 years ago are 5 years older, life has started to kick in for a lot of them. The new music isn't developing the hardcore following they had before. You mention the Stand Up release and 05 tour, which are legitimate, but the 2006 tour "stuttering" bothered you more than any of the 1000 people on that message board, I think you're projecting that one a bit. You obviously didn't keep 2003 in mind all year where the first run was the songs they don't normally play because they don't really like playing, but they did for us for awhile, then got tired of playing them. (my guess)

I may be projecting a bit, and I was certainly the most vocal about it (I think I pulverized the dead horse for a while there :lol), but I wasn't the only one by any means that was bothered by seeing all those songs in the first leg dissapear and them really getting so lazy with their sets that they repeated Stand Up songs to fill 2 nighters. The amount of positive reviews that came in from the last stretch of the tour really were few and far between.

In either event, it's a relatively minor thing compared to the new material aspect. That's what's losing fans more than anything, and that's the only way they're going to regain fans. Rather than bandage the problem by playing #34 a dozen times, get in the studio and actually challenge themselves to write interesting and creative music again if they still have it in them.

celluloid hero
11-22-2006, 11:55 PM
I'm almost hoping they write a shit album to get you the fuck out of here for once and for all :-)

bsan83
11-22-2006, 11:56 PM
:hi

Meh, if they write a shit album, they've given me so many songs that I really love that I don't think I'll ever lose that. I just hope they have some gas left.

Smittay
11-22-2006, 11:59 PM
i think pride has rationed a commission off RCA's twisted wang... think of the timing... he just starts working for RCA right around the time LT7 is being dropped... and he's pushing us to buy it... do the math - SUSPECT!

"yeah dave, its Pride, if you let me push 117,000 units of LT7 can i do a portrait of your kids?" - SUSPECT!

pride nuts all over RCA... who *really* did the Titanic photoshop - SUSPECT!

youre going down like tawatha's career in 02 :downyours

jsandr
11-23-2006, 02:08 AM
i'm definitely going to order the cd's for this release. this and LT3 are really all I need from this series so far.

i'm also bored with much of what DMB is doing, but it's as much my fault as the bands. they really aren't writing that much quality music of late, and I'm overlistening to stuff.

thats why you go out and find new bands to enjoy and follow. it makes the pain of what dmb's doing go away : )

jsandr
11-23-2006, 02:10 AM
:hi

Meh, if they write a shit album, they've given me so many songs that I really love that I don't think I'll ever lose that. I just hope they have some gas left.

well said.

and it hasn't been so long since they've made new songs that I enjoy... Hello Again is steadily rising among DMB tunes at the top of my list. i've def been :whatever that song recently.

dancetheham
11-23-2006, 02:19 AM
Well, I asked for it for Christmas, so I hope that Santa Claus has preordered it already. But if this were coming out mid-year, I sure as hell wouldn't preorder it for myself. I'd wait until it came out officially. This is BY FAR my favorite DMB show ever, and even though I haven't bought any of the other Live Trax releases, I am definitely getting ahold of this one.

Music Today and the Warehouse need to improve their preorder and shipping system. It's great that they include bonus discs with just about everything, but you have to pay SO MUCH money to get the bonus disc and to get it on the release date. And then it's pretty common to not even get the stuff on the release date that you paid an arm and a leg for! I'd much rather download the bonus disc on oink and go to Target or Best Buy and pick up the album for $10 on the release date.

And then the shit they pulled with the Fenway shows (i.e., pushing the release date back and releasing them in stores, thereby making people who paid a lot of money to have it on X date get it on Y date when they could have gone to Best Buy on Y date and had the exact same thing for half the price). That pissed a lot of people off. And that was, what, three months ago?

And, as people have been saying, they release way too many shows way too often, which are all very similar to one another. Look at this: http://www.dmbalmanac.com/LiveReleases.aspx

There are already SIX officially-released live versions of Louisiana Bayou. SIX! That song was written less than two years ago! 13 of Crash, 13 of Too Much. Those songs are all IDENTICAL night to night (other than a small mid-song rearrangement in Too Much a couple years ago). 15 Jimi Things. 14 Two Steps. 14 Warehouses. 13 Nancies. 12 Ants. 11 Tripping Billies. Those are all great songs, but we don't need that many of them!

Look at the shows they've released. The best ones are the ones that weren't the "hot shows" at the moment but rather were picked a few years afterward based on their being great shows:

Great picks:
Red Rocks '95, Chicago, LT1, LT7, LT3, Luther College, Central Park (this is the exception)

Decent picks:
Gorge, Listener Supported, LT4

Bad picks:
Folsom Field, Red Rocks '05, LT2, LT6


My suggestions:
1) Release no more than two a year, spaced six months apart.
2) One post-2000 show per year TOPS. At least one pre-2001 show per year. We already have great quality audience pulls of recent shows.
3) Release a 1997 or 1999 Dave & Tim show. We need one badly.
4) Release a show from the Flood Zone or Trax. Yeah, we have soundboards of those, but there are some shows that aren't in circulation, and
5) Release shows that are GREAT, not ones that were "big events." Whoever picks the shows for LivePhish and Dick's Picks series pore through the bands' archives and handpick the absolute best shows to release. If DMB were Phish, they probably would have released the Great Went, Lemonwheel, It, Coventry, Big Cypress, and not much else.

In short, stop flooding the market with SO much live material, and ONLY release great shows that are worth buying for more than the sake of collecting.

(Sorry for the long, rambling post ;))

ggies
11-23-2006, 02:20 AM
I have read the whole thing and have liked what I read.

I don't see why they are surprised at the beginning though. The hardcore fan base is a small %, release a great show for the hardcore fans and it = AT FIRST a small % of people buying it during the pre-order part. Thats not that hard to understand.

And 2nd.

The band's new material since ED + the dumbass mgmt. is tearing things down.

Pride- Why the fuck was Hunger on the BOWA? Thats a problem right there. They need to get off their high horse shit and that song was not a great hit song. Thats whats fucking wrong, it has nothing to do with the hardcore fan base.

They should look within before making any judgements.

yeah....I'm bitter. I want and need new material like others. oh, and I will buy this in a few weeks when I get the $.

ggies
11-23-2006, 02:26 AM
They've just lost so many of the "hardcores" in the last 2 years. I wonder if they understand how much Stand Up, the '05 tour, and how the '06 tour sputtered to a brutal finish killed what was left of this segment of the fanbase.


aaaagreed. and how it affected the fanbase for DMB throwing away great new tunes('04) for the fucking 2ND TIME! :oar :boohoo

celluloid hero
11-23-2006, 02:49 AM
Pride- Why the fuck was Hunger on the BOWA? Thats a problem right there. They need to get off their high horse shit and that song was not a great hit song. Thats whats fucking wrong, it has nothing to do with the hardcore fan base.

They should look within before making any judgements.

yeah....I'm bitter. I want and need new material like others. oh, and I will buy this in a few weeks when I get the $.

neither was Best of What's Around or So Right

captainbigeyedpig
11-23-2006, 04:11 AM
As I read these posts, I see how things in the community have evolved over the last ten years. Sad in a way, but it merely reflects how the music and shows have changed.

For starters, long gone are the days where the band would vary up the way they played each song from night to night. They were a band still getting their feet wet for awhile, even after acquiring national fame. Depsite how much BTCS is loved and cherished now for it's genius, when it was released a dark cloud seemed to hang over the community. Anyone who was around back then should clearly remember. It wasn't much different from the negativity surrounding Stand Up. It was a different, darker sound, and many older fans started jumping ship then. It took some time to grow into, but many of those songs have evolved into something amazing.

The BTCS tunes were just coming into their own over the winter of '98 and summer '99. Fans of all ages and degrees at the time were finally accepting them, even embracing them. Then the new album talks began, and the summer of 2000 rolled around. six new songs were debuted in two days, pretty much raw, but solid enough to give a general idea of what the new sound would be. That new sound was even darker than BTCS, with the complexity and depth of both the music and the lyrics. Pretty much ALL of those new songs were well received. I'd say better than BTCS was at launch.

And then--nothing. The tour ended, and they scrapped the album they were working on. Songs that had started gaining popularity faster than I'd seen anything since perhaps tunes found on Crash. Remember, this was around 2000, and DMB concerts were a mix of fans still united by the music. Old fans who loved the almost happy-go-lucky sounds and contemplative lyrics were coming around to the new sound, while the new DMB fans were fastening in on those darker songs as their pride, but starting to get high (figurartively speaking) off the older songs, as they explored the DMB back catalog. In my opinion, this was the peak of the band so far (and perhaps ever). Never have their shows captured a combination of interests and styles as it did in 2000. Excitement was at an all-time high.

And then Everyday. In a time when pop music was still extremely poppy (BSB, NSYNC, B.Spears, etc.) the DMB decided to make an album that negated everything they'd worked to create the past few years. If I had to think of a scenario, I'd liken it to a football game, after one team is up by two touchdowns, then commits several mistakes--resulting in a stifling and swing of momentum. It was like the DMB fanbase was building up to scream how amazing this band had become, and then was hit in the stomach before they could get it out.

To this day I don't think Everyday the album itself was the turning point, I think it was the fact it stopped all momentum the band had at the time. I remember before even hearing any clips, everyone saying WTF? Then finally...the album was released. And people went apeshit. The band lost many fans that summer--but not just for Everyday's sake. It's just the album seemed to spawn a string of bad calls and poor decisions by the band. There was a semi-willingness to give Everyday a chance live, as that was the backbone of the DMB to begin with. The band even went so far as to open in thier hometown, at Scott Stadium. That show was a bomb, as the new songs sounded sloppy and lazy. Even the classic songs played that day seemed to be half-hearted. Throughout that tour, they began playing many of the Everyday songs, but they were the same every night. WTWE is a nice tune, but it never changes. So Right was a great tune, but it never really changed. If I had it all was mediocre, but it never changed that tour. None of the new songs seemed to change at all, with the exception of Angel. And Angel seemed to be the tune the band clung to as the "jam" song from the album, much as they have this past year or so with Smooth Rider. To make matters worse, the band hald the lovely ladies join for the majority of the tour. And while they weren't overly enjoyed, most people didn't seem to have a problem with them at first. But what could have been fun soon turned into a nightmare, as the setlists became more predictable than ever. With the ladies around, certain songs automatically would see the light of day, while others never made it that far. A string of somewhat bad openers also hurt--not as much with the actual fanbase, but with the general buzz of the crowds.
Because of the mega media push by the company, Everyday became pure pop for the time, seling to fans of the Carson Daly crowd, (i.e. the teenyboppers). Not that this is bad, but it did seem to usher in a new generation of fans. It was at this time that going to the DMB show seemed to become the new hot thing in high school and college. Not for the music, but the experience.

It's four am, and I'll finish this later. Night.

priceofacoke910
11-23-2006, 08:29 AM
fuck me...it never ends. have a little love for whats coming our way...last time i checked top notch acts were high paid folk and DMb has thrown us a serious bone with the taping policy. i guess it comes down to is some of us still appreciate what we do get.

Ya damn fucking right!

willndmb
11-23-2006, 08:47 AM
a couple of reasons why some do not or will not order the releases
#1 downloading it for free - some people are just flat out cheap and although i agree the cost is a little high on some of the releases i pref to have the hard disc
#2 no "free" bonus disc - there are a good number of people who only buy releases that have a bonus disc because they know they can get their money back on ebay from selling the bonus disc, otherwise go the DL route
#3 hold out till the end - i know people where pissed that they released fenway in stores, of course for less then the preorder - some people will wait till the last minute now to see if something like that happens again
#4 same old same old - its no secret that lots of the songs on the releases are the "same", it gets old and tiring after a while
#5 "old shows" don't make new/younger fans excited - this is a great release for die hards like most of us, but to casual dmb fans this is no different then live at folsum field

those are just reasons i have heard from people i am close to, not ness on the boards, as to why they don't order or wait till the last minute

Tomacco
11-23-2006, 09:58 AM
It was at this time that going to the DMB show seemed to become the new hot thing in high school and college. Not for the music, but the experience.



I can tell you that 2001 was when I noticed DMB. I was 16 and friends of mine and others in my high school started going to shows. The most prevalent song by DMB at that point was I Did It, followed by Space Between, so I didn't understand what the huge appeal was. But then everyone would tell me it was all about the live performances and the back catalog. Somehow ED really did push out the awareness of DMB though, at least in circles I was around. I'm thinking a large part of that was convenient timing though, being 16 and in high school - which to me seems to be roughly the age when most people start to discover DMB. Nobody was recommending ED songs to me, people were a lot more into the previous stuff, especially LWS.

dmb2much40
11-23-2006, 10:19 AM
i think these things are harder to sell in the off-season. i know i only check dmb sites a few times a month now.

plus i think they've released too many cds this year already.

i'll be pre-ordering this for sure, it's my favorite show. but if i wait til december to do it, i won't get the bill until january...if i did it now, i'd get the bill before i got the damn cds.

groove merchant
11-23-2006, 10:25 AM
remember when dMb resigned with RCA....ah yes....thats when i realized sooner or later the tide would shift. major label bullshit is what it is. i look forward to the boys dumping the major label. the band takes alot of heat when most of the heat needs to be directed at the label and capshaw. as for the hardcores...eh, ya know at 32 ive been listening to this band since 92. when i listened to everyday(album) for the first time i threw it out in the yard and smashed the case. believe me ive had major dissapointments along the way. at the end of the day the boys are fucking incredible and ive been blown away one too many times to just walk away. happy turkey day folks.

priceofacoke910
11-23-2006, 10:36 AM
i'll be pre-ordering this for sure, it's my favorite show. but if i wait til december to do it, i won't get the bill until january...if i did it now, i'd get the bill before i got the damn cds.
Oh, like that fucking matters. That's just whining. That's the nature of fucking pre-order...you pay before you get.

Fan#41
11-23-2006, 10:38 AM
Oh, like that fucking matters. That's just whining. That's the nature of fucking pre-order...you pay before you get.

Atleast she's getting it. No need to grill her for that.

cmitch525
11-23-2006, 10:56 AM
Thanks for that answer. It makes a lot more sense to me now. Yeah, I want them to put stuff out again that makes every single person on here excited and happy. I mean, that would just make me so happy.

Sounds gay, but it's true. I wasn't on the boards in '98, and I wish I could experience a community as excited as that again.

Honestly back then plenty of people bitched about some of the new songs including Last stop...

Mersh
11-23-2006, 11:11 AM
Oh, like that fucking matters. That's just whining. That's the nature of fucking pre-order...you pay before you get.

whoa, take it easy man

DMBpride
11-23-2006, 11:15 AM
a couple of reasons why some do not or will not order the releases
#1 downloading it for free - some people are just flat out cheap and although i agree the cost is a little high on some of the releases i pref to have the hard disc
#2 no "free" bonus disc - there are a good number of people who only buy releases that have a bonus disc because they know they can get their money back on ebay from selling the bonus disc, otherwise go the DL route
#3 hold out till the end - i know people where pissed that they released fenway in stores, of course for less then the preorder - some people will wait till the last minute now to see if something like that happens again
#4 same old same old - its no secret that lots of the songs on the releases are the "same", it gets old and tiring after a while
#5 "old shows" don't make new/younger fans excited - this is a great release for die hards like most of us, but to casual dmb fans this is no different then live at folsum field

those are just reasons i have heard from people i am close to, not ness on the boards, as to why they don't order or wait till the last minute
thanks, good summary. I'll add Monica's point about it being the off season as #6

DMBpride
11-23-2006, 11:15 AM
As I read these posts...

Well written :upyours

Mersh
11-23-2006, 11:24 AM
some good stuff in here...as has been said if they didn't just release the Best Of package this LT may have seen more immediate sales. Still I figure the LT series is something that will continue to sell over time so a week after a pre-order starts isn't really the best barometer.

Tomacco
11-23-2006, 11:47 AM
when i listened to everyday(album) for the first time i threw it out in the yard and smashed the case.

http://fauxzen.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/office-space.jpg

hkhund07
11-23-2006, 12:10 PM
Hey - anyone here know when the next WH 5/8 disc gets sent out? Should be soon right?

seekup19
11-23-2006, 12:19 PM
i bought LT7 the second i got the email to show my support for finally releasing really awesome shows instead of crap like LT4. that show just isn't very good. there is no purpose to it. the band sounds rusty (which they are, because it's the first show of a tour) and it's not a notable show anyway. LT7 is what this series is supposed to be, and i'm so excited about it.

dammit, if they stop releasing good shows and go back to crap like LT2 i'll be pissed. LT6 is fine because it's got the new songs on it, and they're decent shows, but they're not legendary. i don't want a bunch of shows notable only for their location. but i have a list of awesome shows like 12/31/96 that i'd buy in a heartbeat and listen to for hours.

seekup19
11-23-2006, 12:27 PM
As I read these posts, I see how things in the community have evolved over the last ten years...
this is so accurate. thanks for typing that up. for those that weren't around in 98, that's really true about BTCS being disregarded by fans. and the everyday stuff is spot on. not because the album was a piece of shit, but because it wrecked the momentum. (in retrospect it's not that it's a bad album, because i do enjoy listening to it for what it is, but it was just so alien to what we'd come to expect... it was a kick in the teeth to fans).

jaking1185
11-23-2006, 12:51 PM
Hey - anyone here know when the next WH 5/8 disc gets sent out? Should be soon right?

I don't think they get sent out until the new year. I usually get mine between March and May every year.

bsan83
11-23-2006, 12:55 PM
Hey - anyone here know when the next WH 5/8 disc gets sent out? Should be soon right?

Between the best of disc and this LT release, I wouldn't expect it for a little while.

Bartender Please
11-23-2006, 03:30 PM
I think the main reason that the first few days' sales for this release are low, as people have said before, is mostly due to the large influx of released shows within the past few months. People like me and probably most of the people on this board have already or will pre-order this show because we appreciate the value of it and grab almost everything the band puts out anyways. The casual fan however, which makes up a more significant portion of the fanbase than I even realize at times, honestly has no incentive to purchase this and I can see where they are coming from. My good friend who I took to a show with me this summer and who is someone I would classify as a casual fan will more than likely not buy this release. He checks the band's website fairly often and has bought releases in the past such as Fenway. When I told him the other night that they were releasing this great show and that he should definitely get it, he replied that he already has these songs such as billies, crash, #41, etc. and doesn't need to spend money for them again. I think the link someone posted before from the almanac about live releases was very interesting. Whereas we hardcore fans can appreciate and buy 6 or 7 different versions of #41, the casual fan simply will not spend the money on it. We all know how great this show is and the management can write a great writeup in the preview for it, but ultimately the casual fan will look at the setlist of the show and see the repeats of songs that they have already purchased even within the past few months and decide not to buy it. Expecting casual and even more harcore fans to purchase 3 or more live releases that are upwards of $20 in one year is pretty rediculous if you ask me.

trippinbillyrmc
11-23-2006, 03:31 PM
Ryan- as far as the shipping... it's probably something to do with the border cross and not them. I had trouble sending things quickly to CAN when Lisa was still there... if I wanted speed, i had to pay insane cost for it...they probably assume paying more for shipping than the item isnt something most people would be up for

Well then they should have a canadian division then. I'll run it if they want. :rawk

iudmbfan40
11-23-2006, 05:27 PM
wait wasn't this just announced last week, and management is already complaining??? you have to be kidding me. maybe they should be at fault for making the release date so close to the inital announcement. i'm also going to be pissed if they rushed this for christmas release and the sound isn't what it should be (just judging off of the clips on myspace).

iudmbfan40
11-23-2006, 05:28 PM
also, the only reason i am buying this because the flecktones are on it.

:upyours

nolan8or
11-23-2006, 05:32 PM
i ordered this the second day it was ready for preorder.....and i actually have liked all of the selections for the livetrax, not sure why others dont

captainbluntmofo
11-23-2006, 06:12 PM
If don't think they will stop releasing good shows because of the sales so far and that is all that matters. We may still get a June 97 show next.

Where or was this complaint publically shown.

captainbluntmofo
11-23-2006, 06:14 PM
I can't listen to dmb for more than a minute before I am bored.

From what I have heard this is an alltime show though, so why even post that.

DMBpride
11-23-2006, 06:28 PM
management is already complaining??? you have to be kidding me. maybe they should be at fault for making the release date so close to the inital announcement. No. try reading the thread

santa.garcia
11-23-2006, 06:51 PM
I'll buy it closer to the release date. There's no advantage to ordering early. Why should they have my cash a month before they plan to ship. Seems more than a little greedy to me.

Huff
11-23-2006, 08:51 PM
that is pretty stupid IMO. We will release more shit because people aren't buying the great shows in mass quantities after we released a huge amount of shit.

Well, if sales for the shitty LT releases were high, it makes REALLY good sense speaking from a purely business standpoint. As he said...there is a business side from DMB. When you release something into the economic stream, would it make more sense to you to release more of the things that sell? Or to release things that have a low sell-rate? Speaking purely from a business standpoint, the choice is a no-brainer. Speaking from a hardcore fan standpoint? The opinion is clouded.

Huff
11-23-2006, 08:56 PM
I think the main reason that the first few days' sales for this release are low, as people have said before, is mostly due to the large influx of released shows within the past few months. People like me and probably most of the people on this board have already or will pre-order this show because we appreciate the value of it and grab almost everything the band puts out anyways. The casual fan however, which makes up a more significant portion of the fanbase than I even realize at times, honestly has no incentive to purchase this and I can see where they are coming from. My good friend who I took to a show with me this summer and who is someone I would classify as a casual fan will more than likely not buy this release. He checks the band's website fairly often and has bought releases in the past such as Fenway. When I told him the other night that they were releasing this great show and that he should definitely get it, he replied that he already has these songs such as billies, crash, #41, etc. and doesn't need to spend money for them again. I think the link someone posted before from the almanac about live releases was very interesting. Whereas we hardcore fans can appreciate and buy 6 or 7 different versions of #41, the casual fan simply will not spend the money on it. We all know how great this show is and the management can write a great writeup in the preview for it, but ultimately the casual fan will look at the setlist of the show and see the repeats of songs that they have already purchased even within the past few months and decide not to buy it. Expecting casual and even more harcore fans to purchase 3 or more live releases that are upwards of $20 in one year is pretty rediculous if you ask me.

This, Chris, is what I believe to be the true answer to their concerns. Whereas economics answer the question to those who wonder why bad sales for this could lead to less quality releases...management also needs a lesson in the basics of supply and demand.

Mersh
11-23-2006, 09:06 PM
Well, if sales for the shitty LT releases were high, it makes REALLY good sense speaking from a purely business standpoint. As he said...there is a business side from DMB. When you release something into the economic stream, would it make more sense to you to release more of the things that sell? Or to release things that have a low sell-rate? Speaking purely from a business standpoint, the choice is a no-brainer. Speaking from a hardcore fan standpoint? The opinion is clouded.

I'm not being an asshole, but I must have pointed out 3 or 4 times in this thread that I understand that it is a business. I'm just saying that it is unfortunate that business is all that drives the DMB machine now. Its not about making money because I am sure that is happening either way with these LT releases...its about more and more and I get that is business, but it could be about something else, but the artistic side of it (as mass said) has gone out the window.

JorgeCavos
11-23-2006, 09:53 PM
Why aren't I buying LT7?

OiNK.