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View Full Version : Do You Ever Sit Back


Ledge
11-29-2006, 05:30 AM
and look at setlists a month, year, five years later and realize how good they were? Moreover, start to realize how when you get caught up in a run of great shows, you can often not appreciate a really great show because it wasn't living up to the particular hype that was surrounding that month/tour? I was just looking at a bunch of old setlists for shows that I remember thinking could have been better and man, they were great fucking shows (not just from this summer). That's not to say that a minor change here or there wouldn't entirely change certain shows and make them exponentially better (at this moment I'm thinking specifically about ODH and not Warehouse following Nancies on both 12.13.05 and 12.15.05), but for the most part, we seem to focus on the negative a lot more than we do the positive. I know this is nothing new and it's been discussed a lot before, but just take a minute every once in a while to appreciate what we are getting to see...I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

tbrown4
11-29-2006, 06:44 AM
Agreed. If you take setlists out of the context of their tour...especially a few years later I think you can really appreciate them more.

But again...there is something to be said about listening to an entire tour in sequence.

Ledge
11-29-2006, 06:48 AM
Agreed. If you take setlists out of the context of their tour...especially a few years later I think you can really appreciate them more.

But again...there is something to be said about listening to an entire tour in sequence.

Agree with both of those wholeheartedly.

BlueWaterDMB
11-29-2006, 07:56 AM
I love going on dmbalamac and just looking through old shows. I can sit here looking at that site for an hour before I realize how long I've been looking.

whiteysax
11-29-2006, 08:15 AM
and look at setlists a month, year, five years later and realize how good they were? Moreover, start to realize how when you get caught up in a run of great shows, you can often not appreciate a really great show because it wasn't living up to the particular hype that was surrounding that month/tour? I was just looking at a bunch of old setlists for shows that I remember thinking could have been better and man, they were great fucking shows (not just from this summer). That's not to say that a minor change here or there wouldn't entirely change certain shows and make them exponentially better (at this moment I'm thinking specifically about ODH and not Warehouse following Nancies on both 12.13.05 and 12.15.05), but for the most part, we seem to focus on the negative a lot more than we do the positive. I know this is nothing new and it's been discussed a lot before, but just take a minute every once in a while to appreciate what we are getting to see...I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.Charlottesville 2006?

I love going on dmbalamac and just looking through old shows. I can sit here looking at that site for an hour before I realize how long I've been looking.:thumbsup

carter
11-29-2006, 08:21 AM
for the most part, we seem to focus on the negative a lot more than we do the positive.

Unfortunately this has always been the case in the DMB community. It was the same back in 95 when everyone was bitching that DMB wasn't writing any new songs so the setlists were limited. In 96 people bitched about too much Crash in the setlists. Almost every year since people bitch about the sets being too predictable.

Your point is totally accurate in that these message board communities do not tend to appreciate a great show when it doesn't live up to the hype. Much like the fans bitching on their way out of shows in '95 because they didn't hear Satellite, the fanbase today expects a setlist that follows their favorite ipod playlist. With those types of expectations going into a show and a forurm such as this to discuss their displeasure, those who bitch and moan tend to make more noise than those who actually enjoy their experiences...

Having attended 8-15 shows in each of the past 11 years I can tell you that I have never seen a bad show. Sure some are better than others and some are epic, but next time Carter has an off night will be the first, so I'm more than content. I actually like to step away from these websites during tours because they tend to taint the experience for me and sometimes that great version of Ants that you hear gets overshadowed because it's just another Ants or because the band dared to play a new song that hasn't quite been accepted by the fanbase.

Ledge
11-29-2006, 09:12 AM
Charlottesville 2006?

I was actually thinking of June '06 shows that we were finding ways to bitch about when we had some of the best sets of the last 8 years in there.

Ledge
11-29-2006, 09:14 AM
Unfortunately this has always been the case in the DMB community. It was the same back in 95 when everyone was bitching that DMB wasn't writing any new songs so the setlists were limited. In 96 people bitched about too much Crash in the setlists. Almost every year since people bitch about the sets being too predictable.

Your point is totally accurate in that these message board communities do not tend to appreciate a great show when it doesn't live up to the hype. Much like the fans bitching on their way out of shows in '95 because they didn't hear Satellite, the fanbase today expects a setlist that follows their favorite ipod playlist. With those types of expectations going into a show and a forurm such as this to discuss their displeasure, those who bitch and moan tend to make more noise than those who actually enjoy their experiences...

Having attended 8-15 shows in each of the past 11 years I can tell you that I have never seen a bad show. Sure some are better than others and some are epic, but next time Carter has an off night will be the first, so I'm more than content. I actually like to step away from these websites during tours because they tend to taint the experience for me and sometimes that great version of Ants that you hear gets overshadowed because it's just another Ants or because the band dared to play a new song that hasn't quote been accepted by the fanbase.

I know. As someone who has been around that much longer, I know that you are used to hearing this shit as you are seeing the band. I just like to take a step back once in a while from the craziness and remember why I do all of this shit.

thestand
11-29-2006, 09:23 AM
I'm looking at shows in 2005, and wondering why I don't rank them higher. For example I haven't listened or even thought of SPAC N2 2005 in awhile, and it's probably towards the bottom of my list of shows I've been to, but on that night we got-

BOWA opener
Rhyme & Reason
Hello Again
Crush
Lie In Our Graves
The Stone
Two Step
What You Are (as a closer, but still)

Those are all songs I love, and all together in one show, but I never think of it, because I always instantly relate 2005 to a suckfest.

whiteysax
11-29-2006, 09:26 AM
I was actually thinking of June '06 shows that we were finding ways to bitch about when we had some of the best sets of the last 8 years in there.
notice how they became some of the best shows since 2003 after the break? As soon as SAO55&3 debuted, the first leg was phenomenal and the second leg was crap... just that quick...

bsan83
11-29-2006, 09:48 AM
notice how they became some of the best shows since 2003 after the break? As soon as SAO55&3 debuted, the first leg was phenomenal and the second leg was crap... just that quick...

Yes, that's precisely it. Briliant.

Or, if we want to leave the revisionist history behind, pretty much everyone on ufck was absolutely raving during the first leg. I think there were like 3 shows that people didn't come back from with absolutely great reviews.

Tomacco
11-29-2006, 10:02 AM
and look at setlists a month, year, five years later and realize how good they were? Moreover, start to realize how when you get caught up in a run of great shows, you can often not appreciate a really great show because it wasn't living up to the particular hype that was surrounding that month/tour?

I'm always conscious of the boards' overly negative view, either from jaded fans who decide to prolong attending shows longer than they should, or from setlist-watchers sitting on the road page. So I basically expect negativity at every turn following a show that's relatively low on rarities, or doesn't meet the hype surrounding the show. I never really know what to expect from the "fans" though. I came back from 9/13/06 thinking it was a great show, but not because of the setlist, just because the performances of each song were way above average:

Everyday
Grace is Gone
When the World Ends
If I Had it All
Don't Drink the Water
Shotgun
Hunger for the Great Light
Stolen Away on 55th and 3rd
Lie in Our Graves
So Much to Say *
Anyone Seen the Bridge *
Too Much*
Break Free *
Jimi Thing *
Improv Intro ^
Smooth Rider ^
Louisiana Bayou ^
_______________

Butterfly
Granny
Stay

But the boarders shat on it. Then again, there's only 1 or 2 shows I've ever been to that I would say I didn't "really enjoy". (8/30/03, 6/30/04)

Ledge
11-29-2006, 10:06 AM
notice how they became some of the best shows since 2003 after the break? As soon as SAO55&3 debuted, the first leg was phenomenal and the second leg was crap... just that quick...

I think a lot of us knew we were getting some great fucking sets at the time. I'm sure as hell thankful I did, cause I loved prety much every show I went to this summer.

kvisser
11-29-2006, 10:09 AM
yeah...6/30/04 was a huge letdown for me....especially after Darien Lake and T.O. in '03...
i don't understand what was with the lack of setlist variation the beginning of that tour

Tomacco
11-29-2006, 10:13 AM
yeah...6/30/04 was a huge letdown for me....especially after Darien Lake and T.O. in '03...
i don't understand what was with the lack of setlist variation the beginning of that tour

I also went to 7/3/04 right after, which was the same show. I should have gone to 7/2 instead.

But yeah, Darien and TO were interesting in 2003 for sure. In fact, Darien was excellent in 2004 also. They tend to get good shows over there.

Crumbo
11-29-2006, 10:18 AM
nope

Ledge
11-29-2006, 10:21 AM
nope

:lol I hate you.

kvisser
11-29-2006, 10:29 AM
I also went to 7/3/04 right after, which was the same show. I should have gone to 7/2 instead.

But yeah, Darien and TO were interesting in 2003 for sure. In fact, Darien was excellent in 2004 also. They tend to get good shows over there.

I pulled 200's the day of the Darien show and was a click away from taking them, but the sets that year to that point told me to save the money...and i was glad i did. The only thing was that I was hoping for Recently that year, and had the thought even when i was thinking about taking the tickets that they could play it that night...but took a chance, wish i was there just for the Recently now because its one of those songs that are escaping me at shows.

Darien does seem to get great sets, the closer was a letdown for me in '02, '03 is probably tied for 1st with that setlist and me being in the 200's-the run at the end of the set has been unmatched for me the last few years, skipped '04, '05 was decent with AMI and the two step to end, and this year was good except i was in the 400's and the crowd was drunken rowdy as shit...yelling during Sister, could tell Dave was getting pissed,...was wrecking the show for me. Went to T.O. and Darien back to back....was a good choice, but LIOG, Joyride, BF, KTK, Raven, Warehouse that night, Two Step to end....definitely another good set. (wish they coulda squeezed Jimi and So Right in there as they planned tho, they could've).
Seems like this may be the first year i miss a DMB summer show (teaching English in South Korea). So hopefully the set isn't as great so i don't feel bad for missing it.

malachite00
11-29-2006, 11:41 AM
IMO a lot of people on the boards use the setlists to determine whether a show was good or not, without considering how the actual performance was. I went to some shows in the 90's that on paper look fantastic, but at the time they were just average shows (keeping in mind that average for DMB is considerably higher than most bands best). And I've seen a couple of shows in '05 and '06 that don't get a lot of credit, but i thought were excellent.

I've decided that next summer I won't read the setlists before the band gets to the west coast so that it doesn't affect my opinion. Last summer, reading all the negativity about the second leg of the tour before they got to Cali made me really worried that I shouldn't have bought so many tix. But after seeing them, I thought they were great (minus the Hollywood Bowl show of course).

bsan83
11-29-2006, 11:44 AM
IMO a lot of people on the boards use the setlists to determine whether a show was good or not, without considering how the actual performance was. I went to some shows in the 90's that on paper look fantastic, but at the time they were just average shows (keeping in mind that average for DMB is considerably higher than most bands best). And I've seen a couple of shows in '05 and '06 that don't get a lot of credit, but i thought were excellent.

I've decided that next summer I won't read the setlists before the band gets to the west coast so that it doesn't affect my opinion. Last summer, reading all the negativity about the second leg of the tour before they got to Cali made me really worried that I shouldn't have bought so many tix. But after seeing them, I thought they were great (minus the Hollywood Bowl show of course).

I think a lot of people on here are at least pretty good at knowing setlist =/= performance. A great performance doesn't make up for a mediocre setlist, and vice versa.

batleon
11-29-2006, 12:14 PM
I think a lot of people on here are at least pretty good at knowing setlist =/= performance. A great performance doesn't make up for a mediocre setlist, and vice versa.

I'll concede that this is a good rule of thumb, but there are exceptions. I know a lot of people think an overplayed song can bring down a setlist, but if an overplayed song is given a new spin, or features a guest, then it can be a stand out rather than a let down. For instance, I'm sure a lot of people watching the C'ville setlists roll in weren't thrilled when Rhyme & Reason popped up, but look at the buzz that song generated after the reviews and tapes rolled in.

Of course, a song that sucks live looks bad on a setlist and sounds bad in person. ODHs and WAYGs take notice.

Wescoast
11-29-2006, 02:47 PM
performance makes a difference. but if you dont like songs, and know how they are generally being played... just seeing a set you can pretty much figure its a good show or not.

it wasnt hard to figure just by looking that most of the august 06 shows werent very good.

Mersh
11-29-2006, 06:45 PM
I'm a "fan" that likes to bitch and be negative so, no.

Ledge
11-29-2006, 06:46 PM
I'm a "fan" that likes to bitch and be negative so, no.

You are absolutely killing me today.

dsera
11-29-2006, 07:03 PM
I'm a "fan" that likes to bitch and be negative so, no.
You're a farce! :lol

Mersh
11-29-2006, 07:12 PM
I will say that anyone who is expecting the most loved classics at a show is an idiot. Well, at least anyone who is at a show about 2 weeks into a tour. You know what you are going to get or at least 90% of what you are going to get.

bsan83
11-29-2006, 07:23 PM
I'll concede that this is a good rule of thumb, but there are exceptions. I know a lot of people think an overplayed song can bring down a setlist, but if an overplayed song is given a new spin, or features a guest, then it can be a stand out rather than a let down. For instance, I'm sure a lot of people watching the C'ville setlists roll in weren't thrilled when Rhyme & Reason popped up, but look at the buzz that song generated after the reviews and tapes rolled in.

Of course, a song that sucks live looks bad on a setlist and sounds bad in person. ODHs and WAYGs take notice.

I'm not sure what the reaction watching the setlist for C'Ville 1 was like, but I know I was pumped when they broke into it, just because of the surprise. Out of all the songs to bring a guest on, R&R was the last one on my mind.

bidroc
11-29-2006, 08:50 PM
I definately think the message board community makes it more difficult to enjoy a show for what its worth. I talked to a guy at work today that went to 9-15-06 and he said it was an "awesome" show, whereas, I remember everyone blasting that show on the boards, as a repeat extravaganza, no Last Stop, etc

BeQuietAndDrive
11-29-2006, 08:54 PM
I'm not sure what the reaction watching the setlist for C'Ville 1 was like, but I know I was pumped when they broke into it, just because of the surprise. Out of all the songs to bring a guest on, R&R was the last one on my mind.

IIHIA was an absolutely huge shock to me. If R&R was far from your mind, IIHIA wasn't anywhere near R&R in mine.

I really enjoyed how they got creative with some guests this year (Lawlor on R&R and IIHIA, Randolph on Two Step, Warren on #41).

malachite00
11-29-2006, 09:43 PM
I definately think the message board community makes it more difficult to enjoy a show for what its worth. I talked to a guy at work today that went to 9-15-06 and he said it was an "awesome" show, whereas, I remember everyone blasting that show on the boards, as a repeat extravaganza, no Last Stop, etc

Definitely. This is why I'm going to try not to read reviews before the shows next summer. Last summer I had a great time at Shoreline night 1, and my husband and I both thought it was a really good show. Then I read bad reviews and started questioning it. I know I had a blast, so why should I care what others say....but it does have an influence.

This is why I think you can't say a show was great based on the setlist. Yes, there are a few songs that can bring down an otherwise fantastic show, but most DMB songs if performed well can be great.

batleon
11-30-2006, 10:41 AM
I'm not sure what the reaction watching the setlist for C'Ville 1 was like, but I know I was pumped when they broke into it, just because of the surprise. Out of all the songs to bring a guest on, R&R was the last one on my mind.

:lol I don't know what the reaction was either. I know R&R got negative reactions in the past because it was overplayed, so I just threw that out as an example.

Mersh
11-30-2006, 10:44 AM
I don't know what the reaction was, but I bet it was awful.

edit: damn it...where is the regular old wink emoticon?

bsan83
11-30-2006, 10:46 AM
Rhyme wasn't really played much at all this tour. Got the relative break compared to the last couple of years that it needed, IMO.

batleon
11-30-2006, 02:45 PM
Rhyme wasn't really played much at all this tour. Got the relative break compared to the last couple of years that it needed, IMO.

So my guess is we'll see it back in heavy rotation next year. Not that I care, there are worse things that could be (and are) in heavy rotation.