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View Full Version : Early fans, question for you.


SomeDevil17
12-02-2006, 01:50 PM
I'm talking people that went to Trax and stuff. When did you know that the DMB was going to make it big?

alexbunke
12-02-2006, 01:52 PM
Man I am jealous of those people. Too bad I was only 6-7 years old during the early days.

Mersh
12-02-2006, 01:55 PM
Do we have any of those people left? We've got some 94-95 people, but 92-93ers?

spruce
12-02-2006, 02:03 PM
There are a few still around...I'm sure tspepper will see this.

drumrun
12-02-2006, 02:07 PM
My first show was Lake Matoka (sp) @William & Mary in 94. I was a sophmore in H.S. I had no clue I was seeing what would become such a huge act. Then again I was a sophmore in H.S. so I didnt know shit.

JamSession v2.0
12-02-2006, 02:10 PM
Then again I was a sophmore in H.S. so I didnt know shit.
:lol :lol

pgr17
12-02-2006, 02:53 PM
My first show was Lake Matoka (sp) @William & Mary in 94. I was a sophmore in H.S. I had no clue I was seeing what would become such a huge act. Then again I was a sophmore in H.S. so I didnt know shit.

nice little set there: One Sweet World, Two Step > Ants Marching, The Best Of What's Around, What Would You Say, Warehouse, Recently

This was an all day festival, with DMB playing last. During Everything's set, Dave and a bunch of other people from the day came out to dance during the song "Soulfish."

After Warehouse Dave mentions that they're getting shut down for the night and have to quit playing. The crowd responds with a chant of, "bullshit, bullshit, etc..."

Popeye2003
12-02-2006, 03:05 PM
Man I am jealous of those people. Too bad I was only 6-7 years old during the early days.
I was 3 for most of 92. Man.

gemma
12-02-2006, 03:31 PM
I was around. I think I only ever see ONE person I knew then around here though.

I don't remember realizing they were breaking until it was already happening.. but I was young too and I never got too far in to it then. I think I was 14 when I started seeing and although I looked older, certainly acted older, I couldn't always get away with it so I just had to use the fact that I knew people who knew people every time I went out. I was knocked back a lot of times and probably missed some amazing shows. But I would never have known. I don't like to think about it. :boohoo

But at some point the crew stopped helping to sneak me (and other people) in and the chances of just 'hanging', chatting with the band got lower and lower. They stopped being able to 'mingle' because people started getting obsessive about it. (Like, one night Dave was down front in the crowd watching whatever band they were playing with along with the rest of the audience, and a month later he was trying to do the same thing and being mauled by hysterical girls...) And I suppose, looking back, it was probably because they were getting big and people (the men in suits) were paying more attention to what was going on. I remember hearing about them having a lot of trouble dealing with that.

It probably wasn't until 98 though that I really felt the change. It was a good feeling. A lot of people upped and left years before then because they thought they had sold out or they just didn't like the fact that they were moving on to bigger venues. By 98 a huge portion of the people I knew from those days were gone. By the time BTCS came out there was almost no one I knew left. BTCS was the end for so many of them. It sucked so hard, man. :lol

It's crazy looking back now though and realizing that I had no idea what was going on around me in the 'early days'. People think 'oh man I wish...' but there's so much I don't remember because it was just something to do at night. I've been to so many amazing shows I don't even remember. I've left half way through shows tat would be considered classics now because I had other places to be. (like bed - I was a child!) I don't even know for sure when my first show was...I just went out one night sneaked in somewhere and that was it...I was tossed out before the end if I remember the right night... I have no idea what the date was and I sure as hell don't remember what they played. :lol Must have enjoyed it though. :rolleyes

I don't know...people say I'm too positive about things sometimes. Maybe I just don't take it too seriously, but I've enjoyed this band for a long time. I've been lucky enough to see things other people might not have and I think I probably can appreciate what they do more thanks to that. I also know when people around here are making shit up so I don't get angry about things that other people might take to heart ;) There's just a pride there that comes from seeing them go from nothing to where they're at now. I know what they get out of it and it gives me so much more satisfaction when I'm listening. I sometimes wonder if other people who were around then feel the same...but there's so few of us left that I just don't know. :banana

Crumbo
12-02-2006, 03:35 PM
excellent post gemma

thanks for sharing :)

gemma
12-02-2006, 03:38 PM
You're welcome. I wish I had 1000 stories to tell from those days but sadly, I don't. I was cut off from most of the good times because of my age and I just had to watch from afar. :lol :rawk

groove merchant
12-02-2006, 03:46 PM
i was handed a tape in 92 (senior year HS)..."check this shit out-its not your thing but you wont believe the drummer"...freaked out and have been a fan ever since. lots have happened and ive only seen 20 or so shows...dont much know what i would do without some DMB. 80% of my collection is pre 94. DMB just had that feeling of fire back then...ya know ED and dave wearing leather pants really were low points for me.:lol:lol

Mersh
12-02-2006, 03:50 PM
Dave wore leather pants?

groove merchant
12-02-2006, 04:01 PM
Dave wore leather pants?

yeah...listener supported...maybe? i forget but yes. black at that.:nod

folsom field maybe. hell i dont remember.

gemma
12-02-2006, 04:04 PM
http://www.thesedayscontinue.org/images/smilies/really.gif I've never seen dave in leather pants.

Phan
12-02-2006, 04:05 PM
i remember one point where he had a pair of leather pants i think

groove merchant
12-02-2006, 04:05 PM
:lol:lol im telling you...ill go look...

alexbunke
12-02-2006, 04:05 PM
Dave wore leather pants? Shit, I don't like DMB anymore.

groove merchant
12-02-2006, 04:08 PM
not listener supported...tho he was wearing grey slacks. shit not folsom. wtf i know he was sporting the leather at some point.

Phan
12-02-2006, 04:09 PM
i wanna say night 1 of foxboro 01 he had em on

it was def an 01 thing

Mersh
12-02-2006, 04:09 PM
yeah...listener supported...maybe? i forget but yes. black at that.:nod

folsom field maybe. hell i dont remember.

definitely not LS

gemma
12-02-2006, 04:12 PM
Grey smart pants at LS, I checked a screencap. :rolleyes

I seem to recall a fat red sweater and black pants at foxboro. There was a video recently. (maybe that was '00) Leather? Who knows.

groove merchant
12-02-2006, 04:13 PM
man, this is killing me...i know ive seen it.

:pics

im looking.

Wescoast
12-02-2006, 04:14 PM
i dunno about dave ever wearing leather pants. i remember in 01 they all dressed a little nicer... no jeans and tshirts. but that didnt last all that long. maybe your thinking of boyd?

malachite00
12-02-2006, 04:14 PM
This isn't that early, but my first show was Red Rocks '95 (obviously at the time we didn't know that would become a significant show). They were not quite big yet. It was GA seating, and we were able to get 4th or 5th row center seats. The only song most people knew was WWYS and they didn't even play it. I could tell at that show they would become huge. Normally when a band doesn't play their one hit, people get bored. But people were lovin' this show from start to finish without really knowing the songs.

The next time they came back to Colorado they were huge. It was a year later, they played the crappy McNichols Arena and tix were sold-out. Totally different scenario.

gemma
12-02-2006, 04:15 PM
I remember him wearing an ugly leather jacket a lot in 01.

And I think I'm done discussing this. :lol :confused

malachite00
12-02-2006, 04:16 PM
Didn't Dave wear leather pants in the I Did It video?

Phan
12-02-2006, 04:17 PM
yea, lets not talk about 2001

gemma
12-02-2006, 04:22 PM
This isn't that early, but my first show was Red Rocks '95 (obviously at the time we didn't know that would become a significant show). They were not quite big yet. It was GA seating, and we were able to get 4th or 5th row center seats. The only song most people knew was WWYS and they didn't even play it. I could tell at that show they would become huge. Normally when a band doesn't play their one hit, people get bored. But people were lovin' this show from start to finish without really knowing the songs.

The next time they came back to Colorado they were huge. It was a year later, they played the crappy McNichols Arena and tix were sold-out. Totally different scenario.


I remember the first time I went to a show where the girls were going crazy for Dave. It was fucked up. They always did but I'm talking about the first time I came across any screaming rabid 'MARRY ME, DAVE!' fans. I suppose that was late 95 or early 96. It just changed the whole atmosphere of the show.

Of course around that time they were still playing smaller places too and Dave would sometimes flirt with the fat/ugly/desperate girls in the front row just to make them happy. And they would be within touching distance, but it would still go ok, they would look like they were about to faint but :lol ....

if he did that now he'd lose a limb. :banana


Didn't Dave wear leather pants in the I Did It video?

No, but I think Stefan did.

DMBFiredancer
12-02-2006, 04:26 PM
gemma, i enjoyed reading your posts in this thread...thanks :)

Mersh
12-02-2006, 04:30 PM
I just figured there would have been a lot more leather pants jokes over the years if he had worn them.

Anyway, didn't see them until 94, but had tapes from a friend at JMU in 93...don't think that is early enough for what this thread is looking for though.

Crush87
12-02-2006, 04:32 PM
why don't you talk about your first show mersh, ive only ever heard you mention seeing them in '94

groove merchant
12-02-2006, 04:33 PM
omg...i will get to the bottom of this. ..i may be crazy but fuck...i feel like it was even a TV thing...i am losing my mind.:wtf

Mersh
12-02-2006, 04:58 PM
why don't you talk about your first show mersh, ive only ever heard you mention seeing them in '94

Well it was a HORDE tour show. It was so long ago that I couldn't give you much in the way of details. I remember being excited because I had only heard tapes and R2T up to that point. They opened with Satellite:lol

I remember the Feb 95 show much better, but still even 00 shows are foggy to me at this point.

denali
12-02-2006, 05:04 PM
im not a trax fan, but i saw then in 1994 during HORDE. I was at HORDE for blues traveller but left a DMB fan with a lovely cassette of R2T. I had no idea they'd be huge. Not this huge at least. They were great but there were a lot of neo-hippie style bands at the time. Anyway, I got into the tape trading and all, and soon after was able to do it on the web instead of just at shows. I saw them when they were around, but I didnt follow them Phish-style.

It was all good until crash came out, and then all the new fans were the Crashheads, and "hated" like the ED and SU fans are now.

I'm with Gemma though. Things really changed after BTCS. The shows werent the same. The crowd vibe DEFINITELY wasnt the same. The "sell-out" label really seemed to take off and most everyone I knew became anti-DMB and more pro-Phish, WSP, etc. After ED, the rest of the stragglers went anti-DMB as well.

Call me a revolutionary. I still like them.

spruce
12-02-2006, 05:09 PM
.

Very cool, Gemma, thanks for sharing.

IPeeInTheShower
12-02-2006, 05:24 PM
I'm with Gemma though. Things really changed after BTCS. The shows werent the same. The crowd vibe DEFINITELY wasnt the same. The "sell-out" label really seemed to take off and most everyone I knew became anti-DMB and more pro-Phish, WSP, etc. After ED, the rest of the stragglers went anti-DMB as well.

Call me a revolutionary. I still like them.

so why was there a "sell-out" label after BTCS? Because of the experimentation and electric sound?

bsan83
12-02-2006, 05:28 PM
Yeah, that was a pretty great read Gemma. :upyours

denali
12-02-2006, 05:56 PM
so why was there a "sell-out" label after BTCS? Because of the experimentation and electric sound?my guess is that they became "too mainstream" and the songs sounded "too studio". ahahah sounds like the shit you heard after ED.

bsan83
12-02-2006, 06:03 PM
my guess is that they became "too mainstream" and the songs sounded "too studio". ahahah sounds like the shit you heard after ED.

It's funny, because BTCS sounds about as far from a "mainstream" album as can be. But it definitely was the height of "rock star Dave."

DMBpride
12-02-2006, 06:13 PM
im enjoying this thread :upyours

tedford41
12-02-2006, 07:58 PM
I was at UNC from 91-95 and I had a good friend who had a brother up at Hampton Sidney at the same time. We were getting into alot of regional/local bands at the time including some from Virginia (anybody remember Indecision or the Charlottesville Allstars?) and my buddy's brother started sending him tapes of this Dave Matthews Band in the fall of '92. I got a few tapes passed to me, but I didn't really get hooked until I started hitting shows on a regular basis in '93. My first show was I believe just Dave solo at this bar called Players (or it may have been Spanky's - I've never been able to find any record of it) for some sorority shindig in late '92. I don't think I caught a full band show until early '93 when they really started hitting the NC circuit hard. After that point, though, me and my friends were pretty much hitting every frat house or shitty club in NC that we caught wind they were playing at. I've never been into any band more or had such a blast going to shows as I did in those '93-'94 years. Even by early '93 my friends and I were convinced that even if the band didn't stay together, Dave Matthews was someone that would stick around for quite awhile. But I'll admit I never thought they'd get as big as they have. I feel incredibly lucky that I was around at the beginning. When people on the boards talk about how many shows they've seen, I love the fact that I couldn't even begin to tell you how many shows I've been to because there were weeks where I'd see them 3-4 times, usually for free.
The downside to all this, though, is that the charm wears off after you've seen a band so many times and never had to worry about being more than 10 feet away. All of a sudden they're huge and you're stuck out in the grass of some amphitheater. After about '96 I pretty much stuck to 2-3 shows a year, then it was 1, and now it's been 5 years since I caught a show. I've now fallen into the realm of casual fan (a string of subpar albums hasn't helped either) like so many other older fans. I'd never develop the contempt or dislike that some older fans now have because some of my best memories are because of the DMB. Hell, I'm here aren't I?
Great thread.:upyours

Crush87
12-02-2006, 08:17 PM
:upyours to you

Guyute
12-02-2006, 08:38 PM
I was at UNC from 91-95 and I had a good friend who had a brother up at Hampton Sidney at the same time.

Do you happen to know if Dave played a solo show at a fraternity part during Derby Days at Hampton Sydney? I was running sound for a band there one year, must've been '92 or '93 and I remember people coming up to me during the show and saying, "When you take a break, go over to this house and check this guy out, he's awesome."

I went to see him and my memory tells me that was the first time I ever saw Dave. The guy was amazing, but I only got about 10 minutes to watch as we had to start up again. My memory could easily be flawed, though, so I'm hoping someone could confirm that he did actually play there around that time.

tedford41
12-02-2006, 08:46 PM
I couldn't even tell you. I had some Hampton Sidney tapes years ago, but I don't remember anything specifically for Derby Days. But it sounds exactly like something Dave would have been playing around that time.

Smittay
12-03-2006, 12:33 AM
i started listening in 93 to tapes freshman year of college then when crash came out in 96 i knew they had made it big....then the whole stadium thing started and it was out of control, then the internet happened and everything else...

Guyute
12-03-2006, 12:39 AM
I couldn't even tell you. I had some Hampton Sidney tapes years ago, but I don't remember anything specifically for Derby Days. But it sounds exactly like something Dave would have been playing around that time.
OK, well then I'm going to stick with my story.

"Dave Matthews? Back when I was a boy, we had to listen to him with no band! And we liked it that way! We LOVED IT! Oh happy day! One man with one guitar! Flibbeldy floo!"

Green-To-Grey
12-03-2006, 12:42 AM
tedford - I went to UNC as well in the late 90's. That's wild to think of Dave doing a solo show at Player's.

BeaufordBuddy
12-03-2006, 12:49 AM
I never went to Trax, wish I could have, but I became a fan during late '94/early '95. The first show I attended was 12.30.95 at the Hampton Coliseum. A friend of mine gave me a ticket to the concert as a Christmas present. I was listening to them casually during this period, nothing really heavy or indulging. I'm kicking myself in the ass now but during that first concert I was half paying attention to what was happening onstage. I only wanted to hear the songs that I knew, like WWYS, Satellite or Ants. Since it was a general admission show I remember shuffling around the coliseum trying out different vantage points. I was located in the top left mezzanine when Bruce Hornsby was announced and brought onstage. After that show I started listening more intently to the band. I became devoted to UTTAD listening to it constantly. At the time I didn't realize or foresee this band becoming so big. I just liked what I was hearing, it was a different sound for the time, real energetic and fresh feeling. The next show I attended is what got me hooked for life. It was the 6.4.96 show at the Virginia Beach Amphitheater. Then 12.31.96 was the next show after that and you all know how much that night kicked ass.

Man, those were the fucking days. :upyours

Crumbo
12-03-2006, 12:54 AM
OK, well then I'm going to stick with my story.

"Dave Matthews? Back when I was a boy, we had to listen to him with no band! And we liked it that way! We LOVED IT! Oh happy day! One man with one guitar! Flibbeldy floo!"

are you stoned dude?

groove merchant
12-03-2006, 01:00 AM
are you stoned dude?

:smoke oh yeah.

Guyute
12-03-2006, 01:25 AM
are you stoned dude?
I'm too old to be stoned. Apparently the Geritol is affecting my cognitive functions

But I am wigging out at the marquee commands....AGAIN :lol

carter
12-03-2006, 12:04 PM
Great thread :upyours So many fans today don't seem to care much about the roots of DMB, but with so few old school fans left on the boards, it's easy to see why some history is lost...

I don't date back to 92-93 as a fan so I can't help much there as far as perspective. My roomie from Penn State freshman year gave me a copy of R2T in '94 and told me to check out DMB's drummer. It took about three snare hits on Ants to know that I'd be hooked. My sister and I ended up seeing six shows in '95, 16 in '96, 14 in '97, etc.

denali's post is spot on as far as the changing in the fanbase. Crash really seemed to take the band from being a regional college band to an up and coming national act, and alot of the old school fans seemed to naturally despise that. Crashheads were viewed as ignorant newbies on mailing lists. General admission shows changed from having fans dancing in place to having frat boy meatsticks pushing and starting mosh pits (Hampton '95 was a ridiculous example of both). There were even early websites like Blue Water Baboon Farm founded to 'preserve' the old days of DMB. The Crash album itself offered no real 'new' music to old school fans (maybe Let You Down, but nothing else), and it introduced a huge new fanbase to DMB. With that background, you can see why some original DMB fans became disinterested.

As denali and gemma said, BTCS was really the straw that broke the camel's back with most old school fans. About 90% of my longtime DMB fan friends went from seeing 10+ shows a year to catching them once a year, and they totally dropped off the message boards all together. The boards were so nasty and negative with newbies and infighting that it became unbearable. I actually stepped away from the boards from '98 until the Lillywhites surfaced in '00 because of all the B.S. It's funny to look back now because BTCS is such an epic album, but IMO it was really the change in fanbase, not the band, that drove off so many old school fans.

Anyway, I think I knew DMB was going to make it big when it was announced that the NYE 1995 show would be broadcast live across the U.S. on FM radio. To me that helped take DMB from being a regional east coast band to more of a national act. From that point on, DMB starting headlining and touring the midwest and west coast more heavily and the rest is history...

bsan83
12-03-2006, 12:07 PM
I remember searching for DMB sites back in high school and coming across that Blue Water Baboon Farm site.

TheNoise
12-03-2006, 12:15 PM
so sounds like DMB fans are always the same: bitter attitude towards new music that they didn't grow up with and new fans that were introduced to that new music first?

zhess88
12-03-2006, 12:17 PM
This was a good read :upyours

carter
12-03-2006, 12:28 PM
so sounds like DMB fans are always the same: bitter attitude towards new music that they didn't grow up with and new fans that were introduced to that new music first?

Exactly! :lol Add in the fact that they always find some reason to bitch about a show. I can think of a million examples from back in the day, but for one I can remember floating out of the NYE 95 show and hearing people bitch about DMB playing new songs (Too Much, Little Thing) and not playing BOWA. Some things never change...

groove merchant
12-03-2006, 12:30 PM
Exactly! :lol Add in the fact that they always find some reason to bitch about a show. I can think of a million examples from back in the day, but for one I can remember floating out of the NYE 95 show and hearing people bitch about DMB playing new songs (Too Much, Little Thing) and not playing BOWA. Some things never change...

nice tits...:rawk

pgr17
12-03-2006, 12:45 PM
i wanna say night 1 of foxboro 01 he had em on

it was def an 01 thing

no, wasn't at foxboro N1... i think he had on some grey cargo pants that he sweat through quite bad... damn it was hot that day. and so rainy the next day. though i really enjoyed that N2 show.

dmbowns
12-03-2006, 01:03 PM
Anyway, didn't see them until 94, but had tapes from a friend at JMU in 93...don't think that is early enough for what this thread is looking for though.

shut up n00b

Behrend
12-03-2006, 01:17 PM
Gemma -

Why did they all leave when BTCS came out? Was there really a consensus that they had sold out? Or was it more that they didn't feel close to the band anymore? i would love to hear from some folks who were UVA students during 92-94 who were there all the time - or even some of the old tapers. . . There's alot of history that sounds like is lost. . . ah well. . .

denali
12-03-2006, 01:29 PM
It's funny to look back now because BTCS is such an epic album, but IMO it was really the change in fanbase, not the band, that drove off so many old school fans.


thats totally spot on. Like I see ED as a change in the band, and perhaps with the shit that was going on at that time, they needed a change, whatever.....but there realyl was an almost elitist thing with fans pre-crash and especially pre-btcs. I was a huge tape trader (I still have tons and tons, I cant part with them) and you wanted to have all the shows and sets with shannon worrell, popper, rusted root, etc. But then yeah the vibe changed, the crowd changed. When I met DMB fans pre-crash/btcs, it was more of a collective (yeah i know thats hippie talk) but people got on more. After those studio albums, it was a lot of prick drunk meatheads who were fans, and were total utter fucks at shows not there for the music, but there for the getting drunk/my brother likes this band/dmb fangirls are easy shit. I stopped going to shows in 99. And didnt go again until 03. And I'm glad. The fanbase just sucked. I'm happy for DMB for their success, but I get all nostalgic at their roots.

malachite00
12-03-2006, 02:27 PM
I did the same thing - stopped seeing the band from late '98 to '03. Part of it was because I wasn't a huge BTCS fan (at the time), and partially it was the crowds. The crowd had totally changed. In the earlier shows I'd been to, everyone was there to listen to good music and have a good time (yea we were all drinking/smoking, but that wasn't the focus). The '97 and '98 shows were starting to become the place to go to get wasted.

Marjorie
12-03-2006, 09:40 PM
so sounds like DMB fans are always the same: bitter attitude towards new music that they didn't grow up with and new fans that were introduced to that new music first?

:lol


thanks for posting yall's experiences. I moved to Cville in 95 and remember DMB being talked about with reverence even at that time by many people who lived there

Mersh
12-03-2006, 09:43 PM
not to turn this into that argument, but for the people who are saying it has always been the same as far as bitching goes...do you really think the new music people have been bitter about since 01 is as good as the music people were bitter about in 96 or 98? I am honestly asking.

pgr17
12-03-2006, 09:48 PM
that's a good point, mersh. i remember picking up BTCS that tuesday it came out in '98 and driving home listening to it and really thinking it was a departure from the band that i had loved since '94. but it wasn't a "bad" departure but just different. after more and more listens the album grew on me for sure. the new music in '01 disappointed me. i can definitely accept new concepts or changes in the band's sound but ED just didn't have that for me. i have always wondered though if the backlash to ED would have been as vicious if the LWS hadn't leaked.

Mersh
12-03-2006, 10:09 PM
that's a good point, mersh. i remember picking up BTCS that tuesday it came out in '98 and driving home listening to it and really thinking it was a departure from the band that i had loved since '94. but it wasn't a "bad" departure but just different. after more and more listens the album grew on me for sure. the new music in '01 disappointed me. i can definitely accept new concepts or changes in the band's sound but ED just didn't have that for me. i have always wondered though if the backlash to ED would have been as vicious if the LWS hadn't leaked.

I think it still would be pretty hated. I mean we still had the live version of the LWS tunes.

Fan#41
12-04-2006, 01:03 AM
Gemma -

Why did they all leave when BTCS came out? Was there really a consensus that they had sold out? Or was it more that they didn't feel close to the band anymore? i would love to hear from some folks who were UVA students during 92-94 who were there all the time - or even some of the old tapers. . . There's alot of history that sounds like is lost. . . ah well. . .

Of course I can't speak for Gemma, but I know being on the AOL board in '98, A LOT of old skool fans were really just not feelin' the dark tone that DMB were reaching for with BTCS. We all look at it as a masterpiece, but you gotta remember, the last single before BTCS was released was Tripping Billies...one of Dave's/DMB's most up-beat and happiest tunes. To go from that to DDTW, and all the dark stuff that came with BTCS wasn't a shock, rather just kinda left a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of fans who for the better part of 7 years knew nothing except the happier side to DMB with the exception of a very few things.

Crush87
12-04-2006, 01:07 AM
Of course I can't speak for Gemma, but I know being on the AOL board in '98, A LOT of old skool fans were really just not feelin' the dark tone that DMB were reaching for with BTCS. We all look at it as a masterpiece, but you gotta remember, the last single before BTCS was released was Tripping Billies...one of Dave's/DMB's most up-beat and happiest tunes. To go from that to DDTW, and all the dark stuff that came with BTCS wasn't a shock, rather just kinda left a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of fans who for the better part of 7 years knew nothing except the happier side to DMB with the exception of a very few things.

Right, it couldnt of been a shock, I mean DDTW went all the way back to '96, all that darkness had been there, just not in the forefront. BTCS brought all that out

greykitkat36
12-04-2006, 01:10 AM
Of course I can't speak for Gemma, but I know being on the AOL board in '98, A LOT of old skool fans were really just not feelin' the dark tone that DMB were reaching for with BTCS. We all look at it as a masterpiece, but you gotta remember, the last single before BTCS was released was Tripping Billies...one of Dave's/DMB's most up-beat and happiest tunes. To go from that to DDTW, and all the dark stuff that came with BTCS wasn't a shock, rather just kinda left a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of fans who for the better part of 7 years knew nothing except the happier side to DMB with the exception of a very few things.

:upyours
The darkness was always there..with songs on UTTAD (R&R) and R2T..(Minarets, Seek Up)..but there was always a good balance on all those albums between up-beat and dark songs. BTCS seemed to be primarily Dark and seemed like a more "produced" album..rather than raw like the albums before.

Fan#41
12-04-2006, 01:13 AM
Yeah, the darkness was there in bits and pieces, the Leave Me Praying's from '97, all the performances of Halloween, those few things but just the push of the darkness of BTCS didn't bode well with a good amount of old-skool fans. And it wasn't even like they(the fans) just conjured up this dark tone, the album was marketed that way as well, just look at a lot of the promo pictures and what not.

groove merchant
12-04-2006, 01:18 AM
Of course I can't speak for Gemma, but I know being on the AOL board in '98, A LOT of old skool fans were really just not feelin' the dark tone that DMB were reaching for with BTCS. We all look at it as a masterpiece, but you gotta remember, the last single before BTCS was released was Tripping Billies...one of Dave's/DMB's most up-beat and happiest tunes. To go from that to DDTW, and all the dark stuff that came with BTCS wasn't a shock, rather just kinda left a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of fans who for the better part of 7 years knew nothing except the happier side to DMB with the exception of a very few things.
I was taken aback by the BTCS release. had to warm up to it as a whole...but soon realized the pure fucking greatness and appreciated the natural progression.the label stepped in the way of that natural progression and for that i will always wonder what may have been. i know the boys say the LW sessions just had that shitty vibe going on but let it ride...good shit came from that session.

malachite00
12-04-2006, 01:19 AM
:upyours
The darkness was always there..with songs on UTTAD (R&R) and R2T..(Minarets, Seek Up)..but there was always a good balance on all those albums between up-beat and dark songs. BTCS seemed to be primarily Dark and seemed like a more "produced" album..rather than raw like the albums before.

I know I didn't like BTCS in '98 because of the darkness. It just didn't fit with my life at the time, so i wanted something a little more upbeat (I work in software, we were all happy in 98/99 :)). Now I can look at it and realize not only was it a fantastic album, but the songs really aren't all that dark. Pig, Crush and Stay are totally happy songs, really, and Spoon has become one of my all time favorites.

carter
12-04-2006, 07:53 AM
Of course I can't speak for Gemma, but I know being on the AOL board in '98, A LOT of old skool fans were really just not feelin' the dark tone that DMB were reaching for with BTCS. We all look at it as a masterpiece, but you gotta remember, the last single before BTCS was released was Tripping Billies...one of Dave's/DMB's most up-beat and happiest tunes. To go from that to DDTW, and all the dark stuff that came with BTCS wasn't a shock, rather just kinda left a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of fans who for the better part of 7 years knew nothing except the happier side to DMB with the exception of a very few things.

You bring up another excellent point and observation... I completely agree that most old school fans tended to dislike the darker direction that DMB was taking with their songs in the mid 90s. When Crash came out, one of the most debated topics was the new darker version of Two Step. Gone was the super upbeat, bouncy Two Step from 93-94 and in it's place was a more serious, driving tone. Most longtime fans hated the 'new' Two Step. As you might imagine, BTCS sent most of those fans off the edge...

not to turn this into that argument, but for the people who are saying it has always been the same as far as bitching goes...do you really think the new music people have been bitter about since 01 is as good as the music people were bitter about in 96 or 98? I am honestly asking.

Mersh, I think you know the answer to that question :lol Personally speaking, I don't mind that the band is trying new sounds and new directions even though the end product may not be to the liking of long time fans. Almost every band goes through similar periods of experimentation (U2, Radiohead, etc) and their fans are usually equally as disappointed at the time of the album releases. Sure ED is nothing like a Kid A or Zooropa/Pop as far as quality, but I can't fault the band for trying something completely different after ten years of playing in their comfort zone. Not to get on a tangent, but you'd have to wonder if DMB would still be together today if the Lillywhite album was released instead of ED.

My point in bringing up the fact that bitching has been around forever was that the DMB message board fanbase has always been the same in that they are never satisfied. FWIW, this phenomenon is hardly unique to DMB fans as you can go to boards from just about any band, sports team, etc and the negative voices seem to be heard more than the positive fans.

FiddySpence
03-27-2009, 10:19 PM
it was much more of a "this is just really different" feeling with BTCS, as opposed to ED and SU where after some songs you're thinking "that was alright" and others you're just embarrassed about

SomeDevil17
03-27-2009, 10:26 PM
I wonder if a lot of old timers that left checked out Some Devil? Anyone know?

FiddySpence
03-27-2009, 10:28 PM
i don't know how they could not, i will always at least check out something new this band puts out.

Pay4WhatUGet
03-27-2009, 10:44 PM
I wasn't going to shows in the early days, but I remember hearing them as a junior in H.S. in '94/95. A friend had gotten a bootleg on cassette and he was playing it in his car one night, and it really connected with me. At the time I didn't realize that it was DMB, but one day we were going to school and WWYS came on and I told him I liked it, and he told me it was the same band as the bootleg. I found out that they were playing in Orlando and went to my first show in March '95. Of course I didn't appreciate it, but it was awesome to hear Ants Marching, and Satellite :lol The crowds really changed around 2000 to me. Less into the music and more into the scene.

batleon
03-27-2009, 10:50 PM
Nice top. Very timely for me after my post in the "did you ever see the original 5 play" thread. Not too many people around here who saw them way back in the day, which is too bad. I'd love to get that kind of perspective.

somf4eva
03-27-2009, 10:53 PM
i dont post here much, but I wanted to thank everyone for their stories.

I grew up in Williamsburg, and attended JMU, so alot of these stories have hit home. It is crazy to think that I was going about my business while this band was getting its start.

again, thank you for this read. awesome.

SomeDevil17
03-27-2009, 10:53 PM
I am actually surprised more people don't come back. I like to keep a tab on most things I was really into at one point of my life or another.

batleon
03-27-2009, 10:56 PM
I am actually surprised more people don't come back. I like to keep a tab on most things I was really into at one point of my life or another.

Some of them might not even know where to go. The message boards have changed so much over the years.

FiddySpence
03-27-2009, 10:56 PM
exactly. no matter how shitty and a joke Everclear has become i still keep tabs on them since they were huge to me at 13 and 14.

SomeDevil17
03-27-2009, 10:57 PM
Some of them might not even know where to go. The message boards have changed so much over the years.

Yea AM is the only one that comes up. I surely wouldn't want to resume there.

batleon
03-27-2009, 10:59 PM
Yea AM is the only one that comes up. I surely wouldn't want to resume there.

Can you imagine not checking in on the fan community for 5+ years and then diving into that? I'm not the type to sit and bash ants but the thought of that happening brings some LOLz.

FiddySpence
03-27-2009, 11:01 PM
it would be awful and only re-affirm their fear of the direction the band and it's fanbase has taken.

SomeDevil17
03-27-2009, 11:05 PM
Yea, I don't like bashing Ants, cause that is where I got my start and learned a lot, but I would probably take one look at that site and forget about this band all over again. It sucks because I feel like their are a lot of cool stories out there that we will probably never here.

BeQuietAndDrive
03-27-2009, 11:29 PM
I became a big fan the first time I heard #41.

This does not qualify me for this thread. Great story :rawk

FiddySpence
03-27-2009, 11:45 PM
i feel like i had an odd introduction. i'm pretty young for this site - only 21 - and it was my mom who really perked my interest. she noted how cool too much sounded in '96 when i was just 9 and i immediately gravitated towards that funky alternative sound. i had also recognized that this was the same unique voice that had sung another song i recognized which was ants. so after mom buying crash and us both becoming hooked, with my allowance i picked up UTTAD for ants and wwys and the rest is history.

SomeDevil17
03-27-2009, 11:51 PM
Crush got me into this band. Not the radio edit. First thing I listened to was Folsom.

FiddySpence
03-27-2009, 11:52 PM
ugh i hated the radio edit of crush, took away almost everything that made the song great. the whole vibe was just lost.

christp
03-28-2009, 12:32 AM
I could probably turn this story into a new thread, but im too lazy; this thread made me want to talk about how I became infatuated with this group. I fell in love with Dave, Tim, and the band when I randomly won $20 and bought Live at Luther College when it came out (I knew about DMB years before, but I never gave them a shot). Anyways, I was traveling to see my much older cousins and listened to L@LC twice straight through, and then discussed this "new" band I came across with them. They knew who I was talking about and I found out that they were fans of DMB since UTTD. I then continued to listen to their studio stuff (Crash and UTTD) that weekend. Right after that, I was then forced to buy BTCS at Media Play by my sister...and it has been a like Alice and the rabbit hole ever since.

gweeps
03-28-2009, 07:24 AM
Crush got me into this band. Not the radio edit. :upyours

And the LWS.

First album I bought was BTCS. I was intrigued by the song titles.

Back in 2001 this was.

godshufflingby
03-28-2009, 08:47 AM
I first heard the band in 93 through a friend at Slippery Rock University (yes its a real school). The first show I attended was August 24th 1995 at the IC Light Amphitheatre in Pittsburgh PA. I remember walking out of there wanting to start a band. I love this band.

godshufflingby
03-28-2009, 08:50 AM
that's a good point, mersh. i remember picking up BTCS that tuesday it came out in '98 and driving home listening to it and really thinking it was a departure from the band that i had loved since '94. but it wasn't a "bad" departure but just different. after more and more listens the album grew on me for sure. the new music in '01 disappointed me. i can definitely accept new concepts or changes in the band's sound but ED just didn't have that for me. i have always wondered though if the backlash to ED would have been as vicious if the LWS hadn't leaked.

I remember hearing BTCS streets the day it came out (my copy was in the car) at this gathering where we were all on on acid. I remember one of the girls there saying that Dave sounds really angry on this next song and it was Halloween.

godshufflingby
03-28-2009, 08:51 AM
I also remember at my first show people having Dave is HIV negative T-shirts on!

godshufflingby
03-28-2009, 08:52 AM
Ok, I'm done.

godshufflingby
03-28-2009, 09:11 AM
I was around. I think I only ever see ONE person I knew then around here though.

I don't remember realizing they were breaking until it was already happening.. but I was young too and I never got too far in to it then. I think I was 14 when I started seeing and although I looked older, certainly acted older, I couldn't always get away with it so I just had to use the fact that I knew people who knew people every time I went out. I was knocked back a lot of times and probably missed some amazing shows. But I would never have known. I don't like to think about it. :boohoo

But at some point the crew stopped helping to sneak me (and other people) in and the chances of just 'hanging', chatting with the band got lower and lower. They stopped being able to 'mingle' because people started getting obsessive about it. (Like, one night Dave was down front in the crowd watching whatever band they were playing with along with the rest of the audience, and a month later he was trying to do the same thing and being mauled by hysterical girls...) And I suppose, looking back, it was probably because they were getting big and people (the men in suits) were paying more attention to what was going on. I remember hearing about them having a lot of trouble dealing with that.

It probably wasn't until 98 though that I really felt the change. It was a good feeling. A lot of people upped and left years before then because they thought they had sold out or they just didn't like the fact that they were moving on to bigger venues. By 98 a huge portion of the people I knew from those days were gone. By the time BTCS came out there was almost no one I knew left. BTCS was the end for so many of them. It sucked so hard, man. :lol

It's crazy looking back now though and realizing that I had no idea what was going on around me in the 'early days'. People think 'oh man I wish...' but there's so much I don't remember because it was just something to do at night. I've been to so many amazing shows I don't even remember. I've left half way through shows tat would be considered classics now because I had other places to be. (like bed - I was a child!) I don't even know for sure when my first show was...I just went out one night sneaked in somewhere and that was it...I was tossed out before the end if I remember the right night... I have no idea what the date was and I sure as hell don't remember what they played. :lol Must have enjoyed it though. :rolleyes

I don't know...people say I'm too positive about things sometimes. Maybe I just don't take it too seriously, but I've enjoyed this band for a long time. I've been lucky enough to see things other people might not have and I think I probably can appreciate what they do more thanks to that. I also know when people around here are making shit up so I don't get angry about things that other people might take to heart ;) There's just a pride there that comes from seeing them go from nothing to where they're at now. I know what they get out of it and it gives me so much more satisfaction when I'm listening. I sometimes wonder if other people who were around then feel the same...but there's so few of us left that I just don't know. :banana

Just went al the way back through this thread and this post is fucking fantastic. Thank you again.

SomeDevil17
03-28-2009, 09:24 AM
I also remember at my first show people having Dave is HIV negative T-shirts on!

Haha, jesus.

captainbigeyedpig
03-28-2009, 11:40 AM
I'm in Gemma's boat. I think when this was starting, for many of us who were old enough to understand what was going on, we just didn't. Not because we were naive, but because going to see a band was just something fun to do on a weekend.

I remember between '96 and before BTCS was released, indeed many fans began leaving. I was still appreciating the music, but if I remember correctly, a slew of reasons were responsible for the mass exodus of early fans. I graduated High School in '97, and I remember hearing at a lunch table kids were deciding they didn't like DMB any longer because they were "getting too big". Though DMB has never claimed to be a jam band, up until BTCS and beyond, most people I knew always threw them in that category. And I'm not sure about High School now, but Jam Bands in '97 still had a pretty big following. And these kids decided that DMB had gotten too big for their britches. I remember deciding at that point in my life I no longer wanted to be associated too closely with "the jam band" fan base.

Another thing were all the "Crashheads" around. As we all know, whenever a band has a hit so huge that brings teen girls galore to the forefront of the scene, sometimes we have a tendency to either downplay the song or the group. I loved Crash Into Me, because it was the perfect song to just sit and chill to, while high and among friends or girlfriends. But around me, all the girls screaming for the song at shows, with signs begging for it, I think that really took a toll on some of the older fans. I remember several friends claiming, "I definitely still love the band, but I can't handle all these teen queens screaming all the time. The concerts aren't nearly as much fun anymore, and they've definitely lost meaning".

Still another reason I feel things changed is because BTCS led the way for "serious" DMB. While many of their earlier songs could be weighty and contemplative, the majority of music that accompanied them was, as we all know, lightweight. It was more like a feel-good type of tune. Sure, there were Jazz and world-beat and everything else, but in the end, we could go and dance and whirl about and live our youth and celebrate both the ups and downs with music that "pleased" us sensually. I feel that when BTCS hit, and the first big stadium tour was announced, it was like "oh shit". Songs like Last Stop, Dreaming Tree, Spoon, and even the Stone to a degree were all songs that while musically beautiful and lyrically satisfying, helped to deflate the "carefree" attitude that was cycled between band and fans up to that point. For example, Don't Drink The Water was a HUGE change in anything the band had done up to that point. The closest thing it resembled was maybe a Blue Water, which had already been missing from setlists for years by '98. But it was a dark, murky song which plodded along, conjuring up dark, murky images. Not the sort of thing most jam-band kids wanted to hear, or try and dance to. To this day, I wonder if early fan reception to BTCS would have been much better if Stay had been the first single released, or if they'd put out Rapunzel to kick off the singles.

I think it is a combination of all of these things which just led many to perhaps the greatest mass exodus of fans the Dave Matthews Band has ever seen. Even the backlash of albums such as Everyday and Stand Up didn't cause such a large chunk of the fan base to leave. Sure, they are responsible for people losing interest over the years, but that has been spread out over nearly a decade. But BTCS, for better or worse, was the final straw for many longtime fans who were into the music for different reasons than many are today. Sure, it brought in many fans, too. But by then, Crash (the song) had brought enough casual fans awareness to the band that they had caught on to the whole "DMB" shows are the cool thing to do each summer. And the darker, dreary songs, while perhaps slightly less marketable than the earlier songs, offered enough variation for the new fans, who perhaps wouldn't have enjoyed the band had their third album been more like the first two. And so those stadiums sold out, and word-of-mouth brought in fans who likely had never heard Ants Marching on the radio, in to see DMB year-after-year.

It was also around this time that what I consider a diverse nature of bands in the '90's were beginning to flame out, change or even just disappear. Hippie bands like Blind Melon were long gone. Earthy bands like Rusted Root were themselves putting out more commercially viable, fan unfriendly material. Smashing Pumpkins were going techno. Tool was in the middle of their next hiatus. Blues Traveler had gotten boring (not their shows, but album). Grunge was dead, Pearl Jam was staggering. Bill Berry had quit REM, and the result was finally starting to show. U2 had gone pop. Counting Crows hadn't put out anything to follow up to their immensely popular first two albums. Creed was dominating the airwaves with their own prison, Puffy and Jay-Z were forcing their pop-rap into a hip-hop world still struggling to replace Tupac and Biggie. Dr. Dre had long joined Axel Rose in the quest to see who could take longer to put out a follow up album. And, perhaps worst of all, the airwaves and tv stations were overrun by the pop explosions of Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys and Nsync.

Everyone in that generation that had just gradated, or were about to, were grown up, and seeking other music. And while music has always been a MAJOR thing in my life, I can honestly say that as I've gotten older, the importance, the need to hear it as much as I once did has gotten less. Constant work, family and hanging onto friendships has taken the place of some of the urgency which I used to have for music.

ggies
03-28-2009, 11:57 AM
And while music has always been a MAJOR thing in my life, I can honestly say that as I've gotten older, the importance, the need to hear it as much as I once did has gotten less. Constant work, family and hanging onto friendships has taken the place of some of the urgency which I used to have for music.

I like your whole post, but this part it home with me. I was the same way throughout HS and college and now that I have been out of college for 2 years, work, got married recently, I have less time to listen to music...

godshufflingby
03-28-2009, 12:03 PM
I like your whole post, but this part it home with me. I was the same way throughout HS and college and now that I have been out of college for 2 years, work, got married recently, I have less time to listen to music...

I kinda feel the same way. Although I have all of those responsibilities you listed above, I never saw music as something I had to have time for. Music is a constant in my life that just accompanies everything else I do. I listen to music on the way to work, my girlfriend travels with me to the shows, and my kids bounce around to Dave just like mom and dad.

Poppa Thug
03-29-2009, 03:03 PM
Damn, this was some good reading...Thank you all...I just wish I would've been into the band that early on...I hadn't really started listening to them until 96 or 97...

jahlive
03-29-2009, 03:27 PM
I was around. I think I only ever see ONE person I knew then around here though.

I don't remember realizing they were breaking until it was already happening.. but I was young too and I never got too far in to it then. I think I was 14 when I started seeing and although I looked older, certainly acted older, I couldn't always get away with it so I just had to use the fact that I knew people who knew people every time I went out. I was knocked back a lot of times and probably missed some amazing shows. But I would never have known. I don't like to think about it. :boohoo

But at some point the crew stopped helping to sneak me (and other people) in and the chances of just 'hanging', chatting with the band got lower and lower. They stopped being able to 'mingle' because people started getting obsessive about it. (Like, one night Dave was down front in the crowd watching whatever band they were playing with along with the rest of the audience, and a month later he was trying to do the same thing and being mauled by hysterical girls...) And I suppose, looking back, it was probably because they were getting big and people (the men in suits) were paying more attention to what was going on. I remember hearing about them having a lot of trouble dealing with that.

It probably wasn't until 98 though that I really felt the change. It was a good feeling. A lot of people upped and left years before then because they thought they had sold out or they just didn't like the fact that they were moving on to bigger venues. By 98 a huge portion of the people I knew from those days were gone. By the time BTCS came out there was almost no one I knew left. BTCS was the end for so many of them. It sucked so hard, man. :lol

It's crazy looking back now though and realizing that I had no idea what was going on around me in the 'early days'. People think 'oh man I wish...' but there's so much I don't remember because it was just something to do at night. I've been to so many amazing shows I don't even remember. I've left half way through shows tat would be considered classics now because I had other places to be. (like bed - I was a child!) I don't even know for sure when my first show was...I just went out one night sneaked in somewhere and that was it...I was tossed out before the end if I remember the right night... I have no idea what the date was and I sure as hell don't remember what they played. :lol Must have enjoyed it though. :rolleyes

I don't know...people say I'm too positive about things sometimes. Maybe I just don't take it too seriously, but I've enjoyed this band for a long time. I've been lucky enough to see things other people might not have and I think I probably can appreciate what they do more thanks to that. I also know when people around here are making shit up so I don't get angry about things that other people might take to heart ;) There's just a pride there that comes from seeing them go from nothing to where they're at now. I know what they get out of it and it gives me so much more satisfaction when I'm listening. I sometimes wonder if other people who were around then feel the same...but there's so few of us left that I just don't know. :banana

I remember being 12-15 years old and listening to DMB up here in CT . . . remember two things and recently . . . they had played the college scene up here so the music was spreading . . . this is 92-95 . . . and then under the table and crash were out and my cool little band and the two or three live tapes that I had now everyone knew about them and it wasn't a secret anymore . . . and still liking DMB was the cool thing . . . my whole high school tried to crash the connecticut college show . . . in new london, CT (still my home town) when dave and tim came in the winter of 97(still nuts to think they played in my little town that is 5 miles long. My friends and I loved BTCS as well . . . but slowly in 97 and 98 when I was first getting old enough to drive myself to the shows that I wanted to see . . . 16-18 years old . . . it was becoming uncool to like DMB . . . the whole sell out argument was going around . . . "Phish was more epic" . . . but you know what . . . after all this time . . . I know there are still a core group of about 5 of my friends who I don't see often who are from that 92-93 era who still get DMB and when we are together it is great. I also married a woman who loves DMB as much as I do . . .what a great band. I am 28 now . . . and expecting my first daughter the day of the MSG shows . . . since I can remember I have been a fan . . . and even though at times I have been dissapointed with a song, or a direction they took . . . I can put on any of their albums and find something I like. Big ups to DMB.

willndmb
03-30-2009, 10:51 AM
Well it was a HORDE tour show. It was so long ago that I couldn't give you much in the way of details. I remember being excited because I had only heard tapes and R2T up to that point. They opened with Satellite:lol

I remember the Feb 95 show much better, but still even 00 shows are foggy to me at this point.
you got there late :lol
http://dmbalmanac.com/TourShowSet.aspx?id=453055365&tid=46&where=1994
it took 12 yrs for a recording of this to surface too
better late then never

i know of 2 people who where around in trax days but they don't come here much if at all now a days

godshufflingby
03-30-2009, 03:00 PM
Damn, this was some good reading...Thank you all...I just wish I would've been into the band that early on...I hadn't really started listening to them until 96 or 97...

where you been?

1t. Dan
03-30-2009, 03:02 PM
That was a great read!