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Jack
11-09-2012, 04:57 PM
http://imageshack.us/a/img825/2914/dmdd102.jpg

LIVE TRAX 23: 2.19.96 Whittemore Center Arena, Durham, New Hampshire

Live Trax Volume 23 is the first Dave and Tim show to be released in the series. For the special Dave and Tim debut, we have selected an exceptional 1996 show from the University of New Hampshire in Durham. This last show of the Dave & Tim tour that year includes Dave’s solo performance of never-before-played Hold Me Down. Tim broke a string and while replacing, Dave played the solo song asking the audience to name it. The jam from What Would You Say into Minarets is a definite highlight along with Leave Me Praying which is one of the coolest versions of the song we’ve heard. Other noteworthy parts of the show include What Will Become of Me at the end of Jimi Thing, the cover of Led Zeppelin’s Tangerine and the Cry Freedom closer.

Track List:

Disc 1:

1. Warehouse
2. #41
3. Dancing Nancies
4. Is Chicago Is Not Chicago
5. Lie In Our Graves
6. Lover Lay Down
7. Proudest Monkey>
8. Satellite
9. Tripping Billies
10. Angel From Montgomery

Disc 2:

1. What Would You Say>
2. Minarets
3. Typical Situation
4. Hold Me Down
5. Leave Me Praying
6. Jimi Thing
7. Two Step
8. Stream
9. Seek Up
10. Say Goodbye

Disc 3:

1. Christmas Song
2. Ants Marching
3. Little Thing
4. Crash Into Me
5. Tangerine
6. All Along the Watchtower
7. Cry Freedom

*Please Note: This item is available for pre-order. All items in your order will ship on or around December 10, 2012. Please place a separate order if you would like to receive non pre-order items earlier.

mrpeters
11-09-2012, 04:57 PM
jacked for Tangerine

cgator41
11-09-2012, 04:59 PM
Love that Hold Me Down.

ggies
11-09-2012, 05:01 PM
Yay! :banana

Hopper
11-09-2012, 05:02 PM
I'll start the bitching. Although its cool that they are releasing two shows at once, I'm kinda bummed they are both D&T.

mario
11-09-2012, 05:02 PM
Jack, how are the aud copies of these shows (if they exist)? Don't know if I should find this merely "cool" or "super fucking awesome".

mario
11-09-2012, 05:03 PM
I'll start the bitching. Although its cool that they are releasing two shows at once, I'm kinda bummed they are both D&T.



http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.glarkware.com/media/product-preview-adult-boourns-large.gif&sa=X&ei=i32dUJzeO-Ha0QGr-oCoDw&ved=0CAkQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNG1iKv5E1qizGmw-TT8Qc4HhPYneg
.

abw123
11-09-2012, 05:03 PM
I'll start the bitching. Although its cool that they are releasing two shows at once, I'm kinda bummed they are both D&T.

Agreed 100%.

drummerkrf
11-09-2012, 05:04 PM
:upyours

Vincent
11-09-2012, 05:06 PM
I'll start the bitching. Although its cool that they are releasing two shows at once, I'm kinda bummed they are both D&T.

My initial reaction.

Billy'sTV
11-09-2012, 05:06 PM
Hold Me down had been played in '95. Whoever wrote that blurb fell for the Davespeak.....

ggies
11-09-2012, 05:10 PM
Hold Me down had been played in '95. Whoever wrote that blurb fell for the Davespeak.....

Son of a bitch. They can't do anything right.

batleon
11-09-2012, 05:11 PM
Yeah um :banana :banana :banana :rawk :rawk

2/19/96 is an all time classic. Great choice.
I have to admit I know nothing about the other show but I will cave and buy both (though still hope fore 2/21/97 some day).

Billy'sTV
11-09-2012, 05:11 PM
They better not cut this:

jnMn2-Ap_sA

ggies
11-09-2012, 05:11 PM
Question is, how will these hold up against Luther College.....

justdmbobbo
11-09-2012, 05:12 PM
2.19.96 can easily be called one, if not the, best D&T Show of all time.

That's all that matters and today is an extremely good day if you are a fan at any level.

FiddySpence
11-09-2012, 05:12 PM
I'll start the bitching. Although its cool that they are releasing two shows at once, I'm kinda bummed they are both D&T.

My initial reaction.

you guys are fucking nuts.

we've been talking about a severe lack of 90's D+T (specifically 96-99) for like a decade. there are dozens and dozens of DMB shows out there, it's about damn time this happened.

dmb1981
11-09-2012, 05:13 PM
I personally have enough DMB to last me a lifetime.These are amazing choices that I will be playing to death.

ggies
11-09-2012, 05:14 PM
They better not cut this:

jnMn2-Ap_sA

ah, I do have this show. Couldn't remember by just the date, but I remember this story. :lol

JWood
11-09-2012, 05:14 PM
Holy. shit.

That's awesome!

JWood
11-09-2012, 05:15 PM
I'll start the bitching. Although its cool that they are releasing two shows at once, I'm kinda bummed they are both D&T.

You should receive a time-out for that post.

Smylie
11-09-2012, 05:16 PM
Very cool, but I wish they were putting out a show with cryptochid.

Yeedog
11-09-2012, 05:19 PM
2.19.96 can easily be called one, if not the, best D&T Show of all time.

That's all that matters and today is an extremely good day if you are a fan at any level.

That whole February D&T run in 1996 is pretty awesome.

Jack
11-09-2012, 05:20 PM
Jack, how are the aud copies of these shows (if they exist)? Don't know if I should find this merely "cool" or "super fucking awesome".

He auds are not bad. 2/8/97 is a schoeps tape & the better of the two. I think Ron Diaz taped 2/6/7/8 with the same rig on the drink rail if memory serves. 2/6 was widely bootlegged.

Same deal with 2/19. An olay tape that was at one point mislabed as a sbd & bootlegged. But it is one of the 2/17/18/19 akg tapes that is sort of sonically off and brickwalls.

Having both of these shows in sbd is pretty amazing. Just wish it had been 2/21/97. But no complaints. I listened to 2/8 even more back in the day because the tape was better. Fantastic.

bsan83
11-09-2012, 05:24 PM
Wow, this is kind of awesome.

Jack
11-09-2012, 05:28 PM
Wow, this is kind of awesome.

Rob's going to shit.

Brandon's going to pass out.

Mersh's going to care.

"Old timer clean up in aisle 5!"

Mitch
11-09-2012, 05:29 PM
Awesome.

2.19.96 can easily be called one, if not the, best D&T Show of all time.

That's all that matters and today is an extremely good day if you are a fan at any level.

:upyours:upyours

brian3641
11-09-2012, 05:29 PM
2-19-96 is the first D&T show I ever heard and IMO is the best.

Jack
11-09-2012, 05:37 PM
2-19-96 is the first D&T show I ever heard and IMO is the best.

I really don't think anyone can argue with this. Someone might think another is better, but it's pretty hard to say 2/19/96 ISN'T the best ever.

So happy about this. Going to pre-order both & suggest anyone else do the same. They only release these gems if people buy them. Otherwise we just get X Whatever Last Big Show of current tour was.

.Gary.
11-09-2012, 05:39 PM
Love this.

Crush87
11-09-2012, 05:49 PM
Fuck. yes.

Finally. D&T 96

Crush87
11-09-2012, 05:50 PM
One of those photos looks like its from 99. Odd. You'd think they have plenty to choose from.

Crush87
11-09-2012, 05:51 PM
I hope they mix this as close to Luther College as possible. That mix could not have been any more perfect.

aawil
11-09-2012, 05:52 PM
Looking forward to these but I really wish we had a soundboard "if i hade a boat"

holdyouclose
11-09-2012, 06:05 PM
One of those photos looks like its from 99. Odd. You'd think they have plenty to choose from.

That's Storytellers no?

torres
11-09-2012, 06:06 PM
Yes.

TheNoise
11-09-2012, 06:12 PM
Dreamed I Killed God is so great

TheNoise
11-09-2012, 06:15 PM
And that Tangerine is a thing of beauty.

Yeah, I'll be buying both of these.

JustinC
11-09-2012, 06:22 PM
Well this keeps that "no butch shows" conspiracy theory going.

I really wish they would just release one, even if it a Summer 2005 show just to debunk it.

Thrawn
11-09-2012, 06:25 PM
Fuck yes, original D+T Captain. I've been wanting one of those released for a decade.

Crush87
11-09-2012, 06:29 PM
Fuck yes, original D+T Captain. I've been wanting one of those released for a decade.
.

Jack
11-09-2012, 06:39 PM
One of those photos looks like its from 99. Odd. You'd think they have plenty to choose from.

One of the first things I saw. You can't slip a fat dave by us as a 96.

TheNoise
11-09-2012, 06:41 PM
2-6-97 Captain is my all time favor but it will be amazing to have any version mixed and mastered

AndyB
11-09-2012, 07:01 PM
So. Fucking. Psyched. for 2/11/96

brian3641
11-09-2012, 07:15 PM
Would they need to get VH1's permission to release the entire storytellers show? That's an awesome show and the tape is shit.

mario
11-09-2012, 07:30 PM
Would they need to get VH1's permission to release the entire storytellers show? That's an awesome show and the tape is shit.
Can we take more than two hours to enjoy this before you start requesting more? Jesus.

brian3641
11-09-2012, 07:32 PM
Can we take more than two hours to enjoy this before you start requesting more? Jesus.

I was just asking a fuckin' question, asshole. God, you suck so much.

Fan#41
11-09-2012, 07:42 PM
Would they need to get VH1's permission to release the entire storytellers show? That's an awesome show and the tape is shit.

I would assume so, yeah.

And this is a big day for releases. For the last month or se we've been wondering, speculating and assuming why we hadn't seen any kind of an official release yet of either DMBLive or Live Trax but this most certainly makes up for the wait.

Almanac Rob and myself have gone back and forth over the last 10 years in friendly debates over whether 2/18 or 2/19 should get the nod for an official release. I stood in favor of 2/18 and Rob always displayed a passion for 2/19 but we both always always always agreed that either show would make a tremendous addition to the officially released catalog. Then when Live Trax came along, it was something that could be used to get either show to light but it never happened, then when DMBLive was announced it seemed like it was all the more likely but again it didn't happen. I'm so very glad one of the two finally gets it's due.

This is a great show no matter how you slice and I'm sure in the coming weeks people will posts claiming this is yet another tool only to promote tickets for the Dec. New Hampshire show but regardless of motives or reasons behind the release of 2/19/96, it's still a Hall Of Fame show in the DMB/D&T realm. I'm very excited.

As for 2/8/97, I'm also very excited. Captain, Dreamed I Killed God and those great '97 D&T performances of Warehouse will make this another awesome addition to the live release set.

torres
11-09-2012, 07:43 PM
Whats so special about 2-19?

brian3641
11-09-2012, 07:45 PM
Whats so special about 2-19?

It's just an amazing show all around. From setlist to performance to davespeak, it's an all time classic.

Vincent
11-09-2012, 07:45 PM
you guys are fucking nuts.

we've been talking about a severe lack of 90's D+T (specifically 96-99) for like a decade. there are dozens and dozens of DMB shows out there, it's about damn time this happened.

Sorry, adderall hadn't kicked in yet. Other than a CD and bundles, is there a major difference over DMB Live releases?

CRUSHsoccer15
11-09-2012, 07:47 PM
Love this.

Vincent
11-09-2012, 07:47 PM
Fuck yes, original D+T Captain. I've been wanting one of those released for a decade.

:thumbup:

brian3641
11-09-2012, 07:47 PM
I could be wrong but aren't the DMBLives just raw sbds and LiveTrax is officially mixed and mastered?

Fan#41
11-09-2012, 07:55 PM
I could be wrong but aren't the DMBLives just raw sbds and LiveTrax is officially mixed and mastered?

They do some touch ups to the DMBLive releases but the Live Trax releases get a much more detailed and thorough mastering/mixing as they get sold in-store as well. So yeah, these will sound fucking great. :upyours The ONLY thing I will ever speak ill on about these two releases is the crowds. 2/19/96 while being a phenomenal show was also a look into what the crowds would be like a year later. I wonder how the crowds will be mixed in with these releases.

gweeps
11-09-2012, 07:57 PM
Both have Christmas Song. :upyours

Haven't heard anything from 2/8/97. Only heard Tangerine from the other. Looks like I'm in for a treat.

I always love D&T on cold days.

dmb1981
11-09-2012, 07:57 PM
Amazing choices. Funny pic for the cover. That ain't '96. Come on management, get your shit together.

brian3641
11-09-2012, 07:59 PM
Amazing choices. Funny pic for the cover. That ain't '96. Come on management, get your shit together.

Yeah, someone pointed out that it's from the 99 Storytellers show, which I suppose we can't discuss lest we incur Mario's wrath.

somf4eva
11-09-2012, 08:07 PM
you guys are fucking nuts.

we've been talking about a severe lack of 90's D+T (specifically 96-99) for like a decade. there are dozens and dozens of DMB shows out there, it's about damn time this happened.

QFT.

raven
11-09-2012, 08:37 PM
Very excited about this.. 2/19/96 is my favorite Dave and Tim show. I still have it on cassette tape. Love this Say Goodbye and Seek Up has an awesome jam at the end

raven
11-09-2012, 08:39 PM
Hopefully they don't cut out the stories. Especially the one about how he shit himself on a bus trip in Africa

Tomacco
11-09-2012, 08:53 PM
I hope they cut the Davespeak to a Luther level. Honestly, I enjoy hearing that stuff once, but after that, it just gets in the way of the music every other time I listen.

brian3641
11-09-2012, 08:56 PM
I hope they cut the Davespeak to a Luther level. Honestly, I enjoy hearing that stuff once, but after that, it just gets in the way of the music every other time I listen.

I hope they keep it just in case I wanna listen to it. I don't think it matters as long as the DS is a separate track or at least at the end of the song so it's easy to skip.

Thrawn
11-09-2012, 09:58 PM
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but is there obviously a release date anywhere?

soright05
11-09-2012, 10:02 PM
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but is there obviously a release date anywhere?

ships december 10

Fan#41
11-09-2012, 10:18 PM
I hope they keep it just in case I wanna listen to it. I don't think it matters as long as the DS is a separate track or at least at the end of the song so it's easy to skip.

Most definitely.

MaLaKaS
11-09-2012, 10:29 PM
Wow, two phenomenal releases. I am definitely getting these two!

Thor2531
11-09-2012, 10:30 PM
Awesome choice. Cant wait to have solid recordings ofr true d&t gems. For some one like me, who wasnt into trading but still became a huge fan at the time of the live at luther release, this has been needed for a long time. I'll feel like im skimming through Napster for rarities on first listen. Great choice.

willndmb
11-09-2012, 10:51 PM
jacked for Tangerine

Same here

Love the shirt too
Only wish the long sleeve was in blue

As for Luther, I hate how the crowd sound in that release
The music is good though

TheNoise
11-09-2012, 11:06 PM
can anyone up this Captain from 2/8/97? apparently i do not have that version

torres
11-09-2012, 11:08 PM
Same here

Love the shirt too
Only wish the long sleeve was in blue

As for Luther, I hate how the crowd sound in that release
The music is good though

Really, why's that?

Poth Ead
11-09-2012, 11:16 PM
the shit at the beginning of this thread is laughable

I'll admit I'm not the biggest D&T fan, but I'm pumped to finally get that '96 and I never heard that '97 :upyours

willndmb
11-09-2012, 11:28 PM
Really, why's that?

It seems to come in at to high of a level and seems unnatural to me

celluloid hero
11-09-2012, 11:29 PM
When you're in the Live Trax thread usually people start giving some shows that have been said to be underrated so many times that at this point they are fairly rated (like 8.7.98). It's always because shows at the top level are just obvious. Shows like Foxboro/Giants Stadium 98, MSG (insert date here) don't usually get talked about because what is there to talk about. They aren't breaking news and everyone agrees. This is one of those shows, and the first one we've gotten in a long time. It's a significant release.

Billy'sTV
11-10-2012, 12:46 AM
can anyone up this Captain from 2/8/97? apparently i do not have that version

Captain 2/8/97
captain1997-02-08


You can download the same MP3 I uploaded to soundcloud (click the down arrow) - I did tweak this a bit though w Audition/Ozone.....

NiCK Crush
11-10-2012, 01:24 AM
Mersh's going to care.



:lol

NiCK Crush
11-10-2012, 01:25 AM
Really excited for these :upyours

Billy'sTV
11-10-2012, 01:29 AM
Six days prior to the 2/8/97 show:

To7S-zAjTaQ

Nova Scotia
11-10-2012, 07:19 AM
This is good. Means that the LT series isn't just for dmb and we could potentially get some really cool releases. But we probably won't.

Mersh
11-10-2012, 08:10 AM
Well then...very nice.

Mersh
11-10-2012, 08:14 AM
Question is, how will these hold up against Luther College.....

2.19.96 is a better show.

Mersh
11-10-2012, 08:19 AM
Hopefully they don't cut out the stories. Especially the one about how he shit himself on a bus trip in Africa

Yeah, I mean my only complaint (for lack of a better word) about L@LC is how edited it is. That being said the fact that 2.19.96 is 3 discs makes me hopeful that they left all the stories in. They are part of what makes this show, and to a degree D+T shows from back then, so great.

Jack
11-10-2012, 09:30 AM
2.19.96 is a better show.

Yup. Pretty sure the number one complaint when Luther was released was that it wasn't one of the later shows, specifically 2/19. Luther was cool because very few people had heard it, but people were underwhelmed by the set. How loved that show has become is a testiment to how good that tour truely was.

sean52692
11-10-2012, 11:27 AM
Really excited for these - fantastic choices.

I've been waiting for another D+T release (live in Vegas isn't too great) and this 96 one is one of my most listened ones. Can't wait to check out the 97 one too. 96 and 97 d+t is so great.

jimijamarchtowr
11-10-2012, 11:41 AM
Do we think these will be released in stores this time around?

fiahdancinbillie
11-10-2012, 11:51 AM
Anyone think this could be to promote a D&T tour early next year... thatd be sweet =)

AndyB
11-10-2012, 11:56 AM
Yeah, I mean my only complaint (for lack of a better word) about L@LC is how edited it is. That being said the fact that 2.19.96 is 3 discs makes me hopeful that they left all the stories in. They are part of what makes this show, and to a degree D+T shows from back then, so great.

The music itself is only 2:25, so it would easily fit on 2 discs if they really wanted to trim it down. 3 discs makes it likely there's a lot of that stuff left in.

Poth Ead
11-10-2012, 12:15 PM
3 discs makes it likely there's a lot of that stuff left in.
yup :smoke


just popped in Luther on a cool fall morning.... ahhhhh :smoke

sdaltons
11-10-2012, 12:25 PM
Maybe this means there's still hope for a d&f release someday?

Mersh
11-10-2012, 12:34 PM
The music itself is only 2:25, so it would easily fit on 2 discs if they really wanted to trim it down. 3 discs makes it likely there's a lot of that stuff left in.

and I feel like recently they haven't really edited the LT releases down.

mjf
11-10-2012, 12:55 PM
This is too damn good to be true. Not only are we getting the ultimate '96 show, they are releasing a '97 (don't even care that it wasn't 2-21 no matter how good it is.. this is too damn cool). Thank god this is a livetrax as well, 2-19 deserves a proper mix for sure.

Back in '99, a friend gave me a copy of Luther College a few weeks after it came out. That was my first exposure to DM, and I've always been more of a fan of D&T than DMB. I never really had much hope that we would get another '96 show. I remember rumblings of a '96 SBD that was out there but not able to be traded got brought up in that post-95 SBD thread (long time lurker) just being the biggest tease. Glad that finally another '96 will be out there. Great fuckin news.

Tomacco
11-10-2012, 01:01 PM
Is mix really a huge concern with D&T shows? It's two guitars and one voice. I wish these were DMBLive releases instead so we can get some more properly mixed DMB stuff sooner.

ggies
11-10-2012, 01:09 PM
2.19.96 is a better show.

Well cool then. Always thought Luther was great. That #41 and Warehouse are flawless to me. Love the opening run too. Awesome that we are getting something even better.

Mersh
11-10-2012, 01:17 PM
Well cool then. Always thought Luther was great. That #41 and Warehouse are flawless to me. Love the opening run too. Awesome that we are getting something even better.

Much better IMO. Not that L@LC isn't good, but that the later part of that tour was fantastic.

Mersh
11-10-2012, 01:20 PM
Is mix really a huge concern with D&T shows? It's two guitars and one voice. I wish these were DMBLive releases instead so we can get some more properly mixed DMB stuff sooner.

Huge concern? Nah, but I have no problem with D+T shows getting the full treatment. You get a little more space/sense of the room than just a straight board. I don't get the complaints on these releases.

Crush87
11-10-2012, 02:16 PM
RE mix, It was never a concern until I heard Radio City and realized they're capable of getting it completely wrong. I'm not a mix snob, but I hate that one. Luther is perfect IMO

Mersh
11-10-2012, 02:39 PM
I've never really given Radio City a listen. I checked out a few tracks when it first came out, but that show never did much for me. Post 99 D+T is just boring (with a few exceptions here and there).

somf4eva
11-10-2012, 02:41 PM
I've never really given Radio City a listen. I checked out a few tracks when it first came out, but that show never did much for me. Post 99 D+T is just boring (with a few exceptions here and there).

Yes. Later shows don't compare when you add in the SD stuff and the repetitive sets of the 2000s. Love the passion of the 96, 97, 99 tours.

Crush87
11-10-2012, 03:34 PM
I've never really given Radio City a listen. I checked out a few tracks when it first came out, but that show never did much for me. Post 99 D+T is just boring (with a few exceptions here and there).

Can't say I've listened to it more than a couple times

Tomacco
11-10-2012, 03:51 PM
I listened to and watched Radio City several times. The first half of the show is great, IMO. Don't see anything wrong with the mix. Live in Vegas, now that's a release I always forget exists.

barebonedcrazy
11-10-2012, 03:52 PM
This is phenomenal news - will be the first live trax I buy since Hampton. Love me some D&T and 2/19/96 is as good as it gets.

gweeps
11-10-2012, 04:02 PM
I think nostalgia must be a factor in some of your claims post '99 D&T is boring. Sure, the sets may not be quite as adventurous, especially considering they consist of a lot of Dave solo material, but boring? Nah. Outside of the usual solo selections, and a couple Tim songs, I feel they do as good a job as possible with mixing up the remaining numbers. Yes, they tend to focus on newer music, but is this really surprising? Rarities are rarities for a reason. Some of those tunes people clamor for were hardly played to begin with.

There are some great shows scattered here and there. Aside from the crowds, which to my ears have gotten worse, current Dave & Tim balances nicely with classic Dave & Tim. We get the occasional new cover, periodic rarities, the classics, Tim solos, Dave solos, new songs... what else is there?

Crush87
11-10-2012, 04:05 PM
I listened to and watched Radio City several times. The first half of the show is great, IMO. Don't see anything wrong with the mix. Live in Vegas, now that's a release I always forget exists.

The mix throws all the intimacy of the acoustic duo dynamic out the window. Guitars are way too separate

timh.
11-10-2012, 04:11 PM
The mix throws all the intimacy of the acoustic duo dynamic out the window. Guitars are way too separate

i agree... the mixes of newer dt releases are not to my liking... which is weird, because you'd think it'd be hard to screw up a mix with only 2 guitars and 1 vocal

dmb1981
11-10-2012, 04:20 PM
i agree... the mixes of newer dt releases are not to my liking... which is weird, because you'd think it'd be hard to screw up a mix with only 2 guitars and 1 vocal

Big fan of the Prism mix. Pretty Perfect.

ggies
11-10-2012, 05:07 PM
Big fan of the Prism mix. Pretty Perfect.

Yeah, and what about the Benaroya Hall show? Even though it was a Dmblive and one guitar, I think it sounds great.

Tomacco
11-10-2012, 05:33 PM
The mix throws all the intimacy of the acoustic duo dynamic out the window. Guitars are way too separate

Yeah but that's because there's not a whole lot of intimacy at Radio City. You hear the true to life sound of two amped guitars echoing throughout a huge theater.

dmb2much40
11-10-2012, 06:29 PM
all i can say is its about time. i hope these sell well so we get more.

dmbowns
11-10-2012, 06:36 PM
Wow. This is the best DMB related news in a long time.

dmb1981
11-10-2012, 07:41 PM
Yeah, and what about the Benaroya Hall show? Even though it was a Dmblive and one guitar, I think it sounds great.

big time.

dmb1981
11-10-2012, 07:42 PM
all i can say is its about time. i hope these sell well so we get more.

next up we need some more flecktone infused releases.

FiddySpence
11-10-2012, 07:42 PM
I hope they cut the Davespeak to a Luther level. Honestly, I enjoy hearing that stuff once, but after that, it just gets in the way of the music every other time I listen.

I think nostalgia must be a factor in some of your claims post '99 D&T is boring. Sure, the sets may not be quite as adventurous, especially considering they consist of a lot of Dave solo material, but boring? Nah. Outside of the usual solo selections, and a couple Tim songs, I feel they do as good a job as possible with mixing up the remaining numbers. Yes, they tend to focus on newer music, but is this really surprising? Rarities are rarities for a reason. Some of those tunes people clamor for were hardly played to begin with.

There are some great shows scattered here and there. Aside from the crowds, which to my ears have gotten worse, current Dave & Tim balances nicely with classic Dave & Tim. We get the occasional new cover, periodic rarities, the classics, Tim solos, Dave solos, new songs... what else is there?

the playing is boring as well.

in the 90's they played like there was practically a band around them, with fire and energy. now they're not quite as sedate as '03, but it's still pretty lackluster.

holdyouclose
11-10-2012, 08:04 PM
the playing is boring as well.

in the 90's they played like there was practically a band around them, with fire and energy. now they're not quite as sedate as '03, but it's still pretty lackluster.

Seems like Tim's playing is very subdued as well....bland, generic solos, just the normal fills, no energy from his side. I know he was sick in 03, but still....just the opposite of how he plays with the band

torres
11-10-2012, 08:44 PM
Speaking of D&T, is that soundboard recording of 2.5.99 still floating around? I wore that show the hell out.

timh.
11-10-2012, 08:53 PM
Big fan of the Prism mix. Pretty Perfect.

actually i like that too... when i said new, i meant the shows that were newer in terms of performance...

always40
11-10-2012, 09:39 PM
very excited for this....first live dmb related stuff i'll be buying in a while, and i'll be picking up both

so glad we're getting this

timh.
11-10-2012, 10:00 PM
actually i dont know if i have this show... are there any quick mp3's out there of choice tracks i could hear anyone knows of? soundcloud, youtube or elsewhere?

Mersh
11-11-2012, 12:08 AM
I think nostalgia must be a factor in some of your claims post '99 D&T is boring. Sure, the sets may not be quite as adventurous, especially considering they consist of a lot of Dave solo material, but boring? Nah. Outside of the usual solo selections, and a couple Tim songs, I feel they do as good a job as possible with mixing up the remaining numbers. Yes, they tend to focus on newer music, but is this really surprising? Rarities are rarities for a reason. Some of those tunes people clamor for were hardly played to begin with.

There are some great shows scattered here and there. Aside from the crowds, which to my ears have gotten worse, current Dave & Tim balances nicely with classic Dave & Tim. We get the occasional new cover, periodic rarities, the classics, Tim solos, Dave solos, new songs... what else is there?

No...and this has nothing to do with rarities.

Billy'sTV
11-11-2012, 12:36 AM
actually i dont know if i have this show... are there any quick mp3's out there of choice tracks i could hear anyone knows of? soundcloud, youtube or elsewhere?




jnMn2-Ap_sA F-wD1MM5wzE

momadance511
11-11-2012, 02:19 AM
all i can say is its about time. i hope these sell well so we get more.

I said exactly this a few hours ago at the Justin Townes Earle show when I saw the news on my phone. Great news, very much looking forward to hearing this release.

dmb448
11-11-2012, 12:06 PM
I am buying this! Can't wait to hear these two D&T shows!

Nova Scotia
11-11-2012, 12:51 PM
Strange they would use a photo from storytellers in '99 for the cover of a '96 show.

timh.
11-11-2012, 01:00 PM
jnMn2-Ap_sA F-wD1MM5wzE

thanks :upyours

dmb1981
11-11-2012, 01:00 PM
Strange they would use a photo from storytellers in '99 for the cover of a '96 show.

strange or wrong? so weak and truly lazy of them.

FiddySpence
11-11-2012, 01:18 PM
eh considering that they got the picture more or less correct for the other one i have a feeling there just isn't a lot to choose from around then.

i wouldn't be so quick to throw the "weak" and "lazy" card at them all the time

Jack
11-11-2012, 01:41 PM
eh considering that they got the picture more or less correct for the other one i have a feeling there just isn't a lot to choose from around then.

i wouldn't be so quick to throw the "weak" and "lazy" card at them all the time

There's plenty to choose from. Plus, I think that 2nd photo might be from 96 anyway.

FiddySpence
11-11-2012, 01:43 PM
meh, whatever. i just can't bring myself to get worked up over the cover art for a live show. it's insignificant.

sean52692
11-11-2012, 04:32 PM
I know some of Dave talking on Luther and Radio City is cut (though some is on the DVD), so I'm somewhat skeptical that it'll all be included. Hoping it's left in.

Jack
11-11-2012, 04:34 PM
meh, whatever. i just can't bring myself to get worked up over the cover art for a live show. it's insignificant.

Well, you just can't bring yourself to leave your basement (aka the Momcave), so I'll tell you what's significant, sir.

Jack
11-11-2012, 04:34 PM
I know some of Dave talking on Luther and Radio City is cut (though some is on the DVD), so I'm somewhat skeptical that it'll all be included. Hoping it's left in.

3 discs.

sean52692
11-11-2012, 04:37 PM
I like to have nice looking and relevant cover art, but it's not a big deal either way.

sean52692
11-11-2012, 04:40 PM
3 discs.

Nice, just noticed that was already pointed out. :rawk

timh.
11-11-2012, 04:44 PM
any idea when we'll have clips of this?

sean52692
11-11-2012, 04:46 PM
any idea when we'll have clips of this?

They're released by Dec 12 and shipped two days before. So, perhaps a couple of weeks prior?

FiddySpence
11-11-2012, 05:39 PM
3 discs.

isn't that bus story like 6 minutes long though? i find it hard to believe they'd just tack something that long onto the end of a track for a song.

i sure hope you guys are right though and that it's all included.

FiddySpence
11-11-2012, 05:40 PM
Well, you just can't bring yourself to leave your basement (aka the Momcave), so I'll tell you what's significant, sir.

how dare you

raven
11-12-2012, 09:50 AM
I've never really given Radio City a listen. I checked out a few tracks when it first came out, but that show never did much for me. Post 99 D+T is just boring (with a few exceptions here and there).

amen.. I was at Radio City and I still never listen to it

Jack
11-12-2012, 10:01 AM
The set is pretty boring. However, I still listen to it, rarely. Not as much as I have watched it, though. The BD is amazing.

raven
11-12-2012, 11:37 AM
yeah that BD is great.. wish they filmed more shows in HD

Jack
11-12-2012, 12:10 PM
Just pre-ordered both of these in the bundle. Came out to $33 w/ tax & shipping. Not bad. Hopefully people who are excited about these are pulling the trigger.

Mitch
11-12-2012, 12:26 PM
Just pre-ordered both of these in the bundle. Came out to $33 w/ tax & shipping. Not bad. Hopefully people who are excited about these are pulling the trigger.

:upyours I ordered them both over the weekend, in flac. We definitely want to show a demand for these types of releases.

batleon
11-12-2012, 12:30 PM
Just pre-ordered both of these in the bundle. Came out to $33 w/ tax & shipping. Not bad. Hopefully people who are excited about these are pulling the trigger.

Just did the same. This is one of those dream releases (like LT 7 and 20) that you've hoped for years they would release. Time for people to represent. The two for one bundle is worth it.

sean52692
11-12-2012, 12:32 PM
I'll probably grab the bundle for myself and then one of the two for a Xmas gift.

RageATL
11-12-2012, 03:12 PM
Pretty cool news...I've had an old school bootleg of this show for years now so it's nice to have an official release. I've always dug HMD...kinda pissed it was never fully developed and the riff just slapped onto the end of Cigarette Lit.

raven
11-12-2012, 04:13 PM
Just pre-ordered both of these in the bundle. Came out to $33 w/ tax & shipping. Not bad. Hopefully people who are excited about these are pulling the trigger.

Just did the same. This is one of those dream releases (like LT 7 and 20) that you've hoped for years they would release. Time for people to represent. The two for one bundle is worth it.

:upyours definitely.. really looking forward to these

dmb6743
11-14-2012, 01:53 PM
Wow, seriously excited for both of these. Hope they don't strip too much of it down. Might have to buy something from them for the first time in a while.

The Hold Me Down almost makes it worth it alone. Super pumped.

TheNoise
11-14-2012, 04:45 PM
Captain 2/8/97
captain1997-02-08


You can download the same MP3 I uploaded to soundcloud (click the down arrow) - I did tweak this a bit though w Audition/Ozone.....
thanks for this!

raven
11-15-2012, 09:42 AM
I've always loved D&T Crazy/Captain :upyours

holdyouclose
11-18-2012, 10:35 PM
I remember from the LC thread Jack proposing the idea they mixed more than one show when they did LC....any chances they did and these D&T shows we are getting are them? Or at least this show is?

timh.
11-18-2012, 10:55 PM
I remember from the LC thread Jack proposing the idea they mixed more than one show when they did LC....any chances they did and these D&T shows we are getting are them? Or at least this show is?

we have an actual tape of luther college dont we? all the songs are the same versions from the released discs

holdyouclose
11-18-2012, 11:02 PM
we have an actual tape of luther college dont we? all the songs are the same versions from the released discs

Huh?

timh.
11-19-2012, 01:47 AM
Huh?

wait, what are you meaning by lc?

holdyouclose
11-19-2012, 08:52 AM
wait, what are you meaning by lc?

Luther College....what I meant (and what Jack meant I'm assuming), is that when they mixed Luther College, they mixed more than 1 show and sat on it/them, and that's what we're getting....I'm only bringing it up cuz I went back and read a bunch of old threads, and the Luther thread was one of them....Maybe Jack could elaborate better....

Poth Ead
11-19-2012, 09:16 AM
I purchased 5 LT 23's last night. Good holiday gifts for the extended family :smoke

barebonedcrazy
11-19-2012, 09:54 AM
Nevermind didn't realize this is the only Dave solo HMD.

DMBBoyd
11-19-2012, 10:24 AM
I purchased 5 LT 23's last night. Good holiday gifts for the extended family :smoke

http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/shared/characters/non-human/towelie.jpg

FiddySpence
11-19-2012, 12:08 PM
I purchased 5 LT 23's last night. Good holiday gifts for the extended family :smoke

is your whole family like a clan of DMB fanatics or something?

Poth Ead
11-19-2012, 12:28 PM
is your whole family like a clan of DMB fanatics or something?
My cousins and my brother are.... we're all + or - 10 years apart in age and have seen many a DMB show together...

timh.
11-20-2012, 09:21 PM
Luther College....what I meant (and what Jack meant I'm assuming), is that when they mixed Luther College, they mixed more than 1 show and sat on it/them, and that's what we're getting....I'm only bringing it up cuz I went back and read a bunch of old threads, and the Luther thread was one of them....Maybe Jack could elaborate better....

oh i see what you mean now... i thought you meant mixed as in combined random songs from various nights to fabricate what we know to be luther college...

gweeps
11-20-2012, 10:03 PM
No...and this has nothing to do with rarities.

Well, thanks for enlightening me as to the why.

timh.
11-20-2012, 10:29 PM
Well, thanks for enlightening me as to the why.

i agree with mersh, and while he can give his own reasons as to why newer shows are lacking, my reason is that dave matthews has regressed as a guitar player. and maybe regressed is not the right word, but he's not as clean as he used to be... he used to be very articulate with his rhythms and picking, notes rang out clearer and were plucked clean with the pick... these days i dont get that as much, he's sloppier... not as precise.

FiddySpence
11-20-2012, 11:03 PM
i agree with mersh, and while he can give his own reasons as to why newer shows are lacking, my reason is that dave matthews has regressed as a guitar player. and maybe regressed is not the right word, but he's not as clean as he used to be... he used to be very articulate with his rhythms and picking, notes rang out clearer and were plucked clean with the pick... these days i dont get that as much, he's sloppier... not as precise.

my feeling is that his carpal tunnel has weakened him as a player maybe more quickly than others.

timh.
11-20-2012, 11:05 PM
my feeling is that his carpal tunnel has weakened him as a player maybe more quickly than others.

most definitely... but when i'm listening to shows, i'm not thinking "oh this is carpal tunnel playing, i need to be more lenient with my listening"... i'm thinking this is tight, crisp, and well executed or this is sloppy

FiddySpence
11-20-2012, 11:09 PM
most definitely... but when i'm listening to shows, i'm not thinking "oh this is carpal tunnel playing, i need to be more lenient with my listening"... i'm thinking this is tight, crisp, and well executed or this is sloppy

i mean, i get that.

i guess i just don't listen to music necessarily that way, or at least bands whose songs i like.

i can appreciate a good tight show and musicianship for sure, but especially considering that i think dave is doing as much as he physically can - that it's not "laziness" - i just don't dwell on it.

plus, a good chunk of my favorite bands are generally kind of reckless and sloppy live so i'm used to it and kind of like it.

mjf
11-21-2012, 12:27 AM
I remember from the LC thread Jack proposing the idea they mixed more than one show when they did LC....any chances they did and these D&T shows we are getting are them? Or at least this show is?

Never heard that before. 2-13 and 2-11 were used on a few Crash era promos, so if they had any other '96 shows mixed back then those would be my guess. 2-13 has one of my favorite Two Steps.. the end is really great.

Mersh
11-21-2012, 08:18 AM
Well, thanks for enlightening me as to the why.

no problem.

Jack
11-21-2012, 02:06 PM
I can't believe they would have mixed a 3 disc show back in '98. I'm sure they focused on earlier, shorter shows for that reason.

Another reason D&T are not as good now as they were back in the 90s is that they don't give a fuck. These acoustic shows are more of an excuse for them to hang out in cool places all first class expenses paid. Tim never would have played a one note guitar solo if they were playing RCMH in 1996. But there are many instances of them just not giving a fuck. If they wanted to play like that again, they probably could (dave's CT aside). They do ocasionally when they are playing a new song, or one they've never played (ala dreaming tree at randalls).

Also, as fans we've also 'been there, done that.' There's only so much d&t can do. It's not like dmb where they can more or less reinvent themselves.

Fan#41
11-21-2012, 02:23 PM
I can't believe they would have mixed a 3 disc show back in '98. I'm sure they focused on earlier, shorter shows for that reason.

Another reason D&T are not as good now as they were back in the 90s is that they don't give a fuck. These acoustic shows are more of an excuse for them to hang out in cool places all first class expenses paid. Tim never would have played a one note guitar solo if they were playing RCMH in 1996. But there are many instances of them just not giving a fuck. If they wanted to play like that again, they probably could (dave's CT aside). They do ocasionally when they are playing a new song, or one they've never played (ala dreaming tree at randalls).

Also, as fans we've also 'been there, done that.' There's only so much d&t can do. It's not like dmb where they can more or less reinvent themselves.

Very true. I mean, in my opinion, the whole point of an acoustic performance is to get an intimate look at the stripped down version of your arrangements, getting a clearer view of how well the vocals pair up against the music before it got muffled out by layers of other instruments. Lately it just doesn't seem that intimate anymore. Even though most of the venues they play tend to be the same size as venues from the '96 tour, it just feels like, as Jack said, 'hey let's go to Vegas!', or playing certain venues for the prestige of it. Just the idea of the intimate setting is gone in lieu of promoting shows just to officially release them.

holdyouclose
11-22-2012, 01:26 PM
Is there an old thread about the story of how some on those D&T soundboards came out?

Crush87
11-22-2012, 05:31 PM
Is there an old thread about the story of how some on those D&T soundboards came out?

Some great stuff in here:
http://thesedayscontinue.org/showthread.php?p=6138338

sean52692
11-22-2012, 05:45 PM
Does Dave still tell the crowd to stay quiet during D&T shows these days?

I haven't noticed him doing that as much as he used to.

MaLaKaS
11-22-2012, 10:14 PM
Does Dave still tell the crowd to stay quiet during D&T shows these days?

I haven't noticed him doing that as much as he used to.

They play in amphitheaters and arenas now because they gave up :lol

holdyouclose
11-23-2012, 11:21 AM
Some great stuff in here:
http://thesedayscontinue.org/showthread.php?p=6138338

I thought there was a reference in that thread to how the D & T ones came to light....but thanks :upyours that is an awesome thread

BrokenThings
11-24-2012, 03:42 AM
Some great stuff in here:
http://thesedayscontinue.org/showthread.php?p=6138338

Nothing really came from this thread did it? Im talking like rare sbds..

holdyouclose
11-24-2012, 11:30 AM
I think a few things came of it....

BrokenThings
11-24-2012, 01:56 PM
they are...

holdyouclose
11-24-2012, 02:14 PM
It's in the thread you just read....

BrokenThings
11-24-2012, 03:18 PM
o ok. Well most of its from 2006 and links are dead. I am sure I have most if not all of the stuff spread on CD-Rs. The thread sparked my interest and hope to poke through my boxes of stuff today, thanks anyways.

raven
11-26-2012, 10:15 AM
poke through my boxes

teehee

dmb1981
11-26-2012, 10:25 AM
considering that i think dave is doing as much as he physically can - that it's not "laziness"

it's 75% laziness/complacement, don't kid yourself.

Mersh
11-26-2012, 11:16 AM
Complacement?

FiddySpence
11-26-2012, 01:02 PM
yeah if you can't even get the word right it's probably best you don't try to talk about it.

dmb1981
11-26-2012, 03:59 PM
Complacement?

easy dudes. typo. you get the idea.

i also think it's very true. watch him play at benaroya... then watch him play now in the dave and tim setting.

FiddySpence
11-26-2012, 04:03 PM
easy dudes. typo. you get the idea.

i also think it's very true. watch him play at benaroya... then watch him play now in the dave and tim setting.

yeah, i have a feeling that's because his hands are getting more fucked with age.

i guess i just don't agree with going the cynical "he's lazy" route with that when none of us have any sort of facts on the matter or know the guy. i'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt.

Mersh
11-26-2012, 05:19 PM
easy dudes. typo. you get the idea.

i also think it's very true. watch him play at benaroya... then watch him play now in the dave and tim setting.

Half the word/inventing a new word isn't a typo, but I was only busting balls anyway.

I don't know that it is either or if it is just that Dave has taken the less is more approach pretty far these days.

Fan#41
11-26-2012, 05:32 PM
Half the word/inventing a new word isn't a typo, but I was only busting balls anyway.

I don't know that it is either or if it is just that Dave has taken the less is more approach pretty far these days.

I think it might be the latter. Jack mentioned he's always kept Ballard's quick approach to songwriting, but I think Dave has also taken cues from Willie Nelson. I don't remember where I saw it, but there's a clip of Dave talking/playing with Willie and he mentions the less is more approach.

Mersh
11-26-2012, 05:35 PM
I think it might be the latter. Jack mentioned he's always kept Ballard's quick approach to songwriting, but I think Dave has also taken cues from Willie Nelson. I don't remember where I saw it, but there's a clip of Dave talking/playing with Willie and he mentions the less is more approach.

Yeah, I remember the interview where he said Ballard taught him the joy of songwriting and ever since ED there is a clear change in his approach.

FiddySpence
11-26-2012, 05:37 PM
i took that as more of a lyrical/structural thing and not necessarily about how to write guitar riffs.

something like SMTS i can't imagine Ballard looking at and thinking "it's too complicated! dumb it down!" it's still just a 4 minute pop song.

Mersh
11-26-2012, 05:39 PM
Yeah, I am sure it is more a lyrical approach, but the guitar writing changed at that time too.

Also, I thought what was originally thought to be carpal tunnel turned out to be something else.

Mersh
11-26-2012, 05:41 PM
Also, 2 weeks out from this release. Really looking forward to it. Hope the 3 discs means they didn't edit it down.

FiddySpence
11-26-2012, 05:41 PM
Yeah, I am sure it is more a lyrical approach, but the guitar writing changed at that time too.

Also, I thought what was originally thought to be carpal tunnel turned out to be something else.

true, the type of riffs he wrote changed a bit around then. but even stuff like FTT had some cool things going on there.

i never heard about the carpal tunnel thing being something else :dunno

Mersh
11-26-2012, 05:43 PM
true, the type of riffs he wrote changed a bit around then. but even stuff like FTT had some cool things going on there.

i never heard about the carpal tunnel thing being something else :dunnp

I think now there are just so many strong musicians that he lays back.


Yeah, I don't remember where I heard it...I almost want to say it was some "davespeak" from a D+T show, but I can't remember. This was from a time when I gave much more of a shit about this stuff.

FiddySpence
11-26-2012, 05:45 PM
I think now there are just so many strong musicians that he lays back.


Yeah, I don't remember where I heard it...I almost want to say it was some "davespeak" from a D+T show, but I can't remember. This was from a time when I gave much more of a shit about this stuff.

yeah maybe


it's gotta be something though. you can see him shaking his hand around after songs a lot in later live shows i feel.

Mersh
11-26-2012, 05:47 PM
There is definitely something for sure.

It may have been an interview somewhere now that I think about it. I am never going to remember.


As for laying back, it isn't really a criticism. I don't expect 90s-00 Dave to return. That being said I still get geeked out for a release like this.

FiddySpence
11-26-2012, 05:50 PM
i definitely can't wait for these.

my only criticism is that since they're releasing them simultaneously there's quite a bit of overlap with the songs, but that's minor and it's just good to have some mid-90's D+T.

inmytree
11-26-2012, 05:51 PM
I think his guitar riffs have been decreasing really since the mid-90's, when he started writing with the band as opposed to by himself all the time. As for recent shows, I haven't noticed him stripping down the parts he plays, but that's not necessarily saying much.

FiddySpence
11-26-2012, 05:53 PM
I think his guitar riffs have been decreasing really since the mid-90's, when he started writing with the band as opposed to by himself all the time. As for recent shows, I haven't noticed him stripping down the parts he plays, but that's not necessarily saying much.

the only two instances of him stripping stuff down now that i can think of is Busted Stuff - which sounds better with tim doing it anyway so who cares - and Raven which is negligible and only guitar aficionados seem to bitch about. otherwise, i think he's mixed just fine and i think he basically plays what he always has.

and you're definitely write about the riffs. BTCS was already simpler than what came before it in the guitar department.

inmytree
11-26-2012, 05:56 PM
I knew about those two; I thought it was meant that there was a more general approach to not playing like he used to in the Dave and Tim shows.

FiddySpence
11-26-2012, 05:57 PM
I knew about those two; I thought it was meant that there was a more general approach to not playing like he used to in the Dave and Tim shows.

ah i see.

for me it's both him and tim's lackluster approach in that setting lately that has made it boring for me. they just don't pound away at the stuff like they used to.

Mersh
11-26-2012, 05:57 PM
i definitely can't wait for these.

my only criticism is that since they're releasing them simultaneously there's quite a bit of overlap with the songs, but that's minor and it's just good to have some mid-90's D+T.

Yeah, I would have rather seen a 96 and a 99...you'd get overlap, but a good deal of variety. Hardly a complaint though.

I'd have figured not enough electric guitar or BW material for you. :oldwink.

Mersh
11-26-2012, 06:01 PM
the only two instances of him stripping stuff down now that i can think of is Busted Stuff - which sounds better with tim doing it anyway so who cares - and Raven which is negligible and only guitar aficionados seem to bitch about. otherwise, i think he's mixed just fine and i think he basically plays what he always has.

and you're definitely write about the riffs. BTCS was already simpler than what came before it in the guitar department.

I disagree on BS, but personal preference (I don't care about the studio version) and all that. Raven is another example and is unfortunate...I feel it takes away some punch/interesting voicing, but I am a guitar aficionado bitcher apparently. Neither one is the end of my world...again, I know Dave of 90s-00 ain't coming back.

Beyond that it is just the way he writes now.

FiddySpence
11-26-2012, 06:04 PM
i really think inmytree is on to something about what happens with the riffs when he writes with the band.

he wrote most of the basics of AFTW by himself and that has some of the more interesting guitar riffs in a long time with Gaucho, Rooftop, Broken Things, etc.

inmytree
11-26-2012, 06:05 PM
ah i see.

for me it's both him and tim's lackluster approach in that setting lately that has made it boring for me. they just don't pound away at the stuff like they used to.

I have to say it's more likely carpal tunnel than anything. I mean, SMTS is complex, but he could probably put down a guitar for 20 years, pick one up and play that; it's less creativity than it probably is muscle memory by now. I doubt it's some creative stretch for him to still play a riff like that.

Crush87
11-26-2012, 06:05 PM
the only two instances of him stripping stuff down now that i can think of is Busted Stuff - which sounds better with tim doing it anyway so who cares - and Raven which is negligible and only guitar aficionados seem to bitch about. otherwise, i think he's mixed just fine and i think he basically plays what he always has.


There are many more examples, believe me. It's not always just the main riffs of songs, Dave has taken a much more back seat approach to jams as well.

Mersh
11-26-2012, 06:06 PM
There are many more examples, believe me. It's not always just the main riffs of songs, Dave has taken a much more back seat approach to jams as well.

This is true. A small example...listen to a #41 from like 99 and now.

inmytree
11-26-2012, 06:06 PM
i really think inmytree is on to something about what happens with the riffs when he writes with the band.

he wrote most of the basics of AFTW by himself and that has some of the more interesting guitar riffs in a long time with Gaucho, Rooftop, Broken Things, etc.

He doesn't have to carry the whole sound on his own when he doesn't write with the band.

Really, every album since BTCS seems to have been a mix of riffs and straight open chords, which leads me to think that the way they write now is a grab bag of jam sessions and Dave coming up with stuff on his own.

FiddySpence
11-26-2012, 06:07 PM
There are many more examples, believe me. It's not always just the main riffs of songs, Dave has taken a much more back seat approach to jams as well.

well that i think is where Mersh's theory of the extra and talented musicians comes in.

dave basically had to step up to fill things in 15 years ago because it was basically just him, carter, and stefan while roi or boyd solo'd.

now there's a lot more people up there to shade a jam in while the solo takes place. just makes sense.

inmytree
11-26-2012, 06:08 PM
There are many more examples, believe me. It's not always just the main riffs of songs, Dave has taken a much more back seat approach to jams as well.

Maybe, there's also more instrumentation in the band now vs. then.

It'd be more interesting to see if Dave is doing less now than he was during a time like winter 98 when there were always 6+ players onstage. I have no idea if that's true or not though.

edit: yeah, what spence said, basically

FiddySpence
11-26-2012, 06:09 PM
plus, it's hard to play guitar and do a retard white boy ho-down dance at the same time.

Fan#41
11-26-2012, 06:11 PM
that's racist

FiddySpence
11-26-2012, 06:12 PM
it's not racist if it's against white people, brandon.

Crush87
11-26-2012, 06:13 PM
well that i think is where Mersh's theory of the extra and talented musicians comes in.

dave basically had to step up to fill things in 15 years ago because it was basically just him, carter, and stefan while roi or boyd solo'd.

now there's a lot more people up there to shade a jam in while the solo takes place. just makes sense.

Yeah agreed it's not just his approach, it's him adapting to a larger band.

celluloid hero
11-26-2012, 07:43 PM
Yeah, I am sure it is more a lyrical approach, but the guitar writing changed at that time too.

Also, I thought what was originally thought to be carpal tunnel turned out to be something else.

What's going to be funny, is the first show he says he has carpal tunnel, the second show he says he doesn't. Funny the two releases both refer to it.

Mersh
11-26-2012, 07:52 PM
What's going to be funny, is the first show he says he has carpal tunnel, the second show he says he doesn't. Funny the two releases both refer to it.

Is it 2.8.97 when he says he doesn't? Maybe he says it several times during the 97 tour because 2.8 isn't a show I listened to much.

dmb1981
11-26-2012, 10:39 PM
Half the word/inventing a new word isn't a typo, but I was only busting balls anyway.

I don't know that it is either or if it is just that Dave has taken the less is more approach pretty far these days.

The concept of his more is less approach to song writing is definitely related to this guitar playing. Unless Dave know's something we don't, that's a lazy cop out. That's like Wayne Gretzky shooting more bc his favourite hockey players had crazy hard shots. He's not a shooter but he was an incredible set up man.

Either way, he was a stronger musician before he came up with this less is more approach. Dave was different/original for a reason. He gave that up when he stopped writing songs and music that way.

That said... he wrote some cool riffs on the new album. I absolutely give him that.

FiddySpence
11-26-2012, 10:41 PM
i completely disagree that "less is more" is inherently lazy. it may not have yielded the best results for this particular artist, but i do feel that it is absolutely a valid and imo correct way of looking at music most of the time.

dmb1981
11-26-2012, 10:47 PM
i completely disagree that "less is more" is inherently lazy. it may not have yielded the best results for this particular artist, but i do feel that it is absolutely a valid and imo correct way of looking at music most of the time.

True. But not with Dave. Aside from his on-stage emotion, his more is more approach is what made him who is he. The less is more style of writing music with him just isn't interesting relative to what he did the first half of his career. I'll argue and stick with that to my grave. I simply don't agree with you on this. Even when he was writing simple music it was original. Do you play the guitar? I do a little bit and even his easy songs from back then were original and interesting.

toomanychoices
11-26-2012, 10:48 PM
it's not racist if it's against white people, brandon.

ZING! Also Touche.

brian3641
11-26-2012, 10:53 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqicbvf68k1qazg1so4_400.gif

FiddySpence
11-26-2012, 10:53 PM
True. But not with Dave. Aside from his on-stage emotion, his more is more approach is what made him who is he. The less is more style of writing music with him just isn't interesting relative to what he did the first half of his career. I'll argue and stick with that to my grave. I simply don't agree with you on this. Even when he was writing simple music it was original. Do you play the guitar? I do a little bit and even his easy songs from back then were original and interesting.

no i don't play the guitar, i don't know what that has to do with anything.

dmb1981
11-26-2012, 11:04 PM
no i don't play the guitar, i don't know what that has to do with anything.

The dude was crazy original. He's still fairly abnormal in his approach to the guitar but not nearly what he was. His song writing runs in a very similar line. It's just not as original as it used to be. And the less is more Ballard approach is the root cause.

FiddySpence
11-26-2012, 11:05 PM
yes, i know all that.

vtpettit
11-27-2012, 09:50 AM
I think the changes in Dave's style (writing and playing) can be attributed to one thing... his age. He's pushing 46. He's not gonna have the energy and passion that he had in his 20s and even 30s. His priority is his family now. Music, while still extremely lucrative for him, has taken a backseat. He's probably just as excited about his wine venture today as he is about the music.

bsan83
11-27-2012, 09:52 AM
They were going for "less is more" and stripped down before meeting Ballard though. The Busted Stuff material is all much more sparse than the BTCS material.

inmytree
11-27-2012, 12:01 PM
They were going for "less is more" and stripped down before meeting Ballard though. The Busted Stuff material is all much more sparse than the BTCS material.

If we're talking straight guitar style, as spence mentioned earlier, BTCS is as sparse as most of their later records. Things like The Stone are very much the exception on that album rather than the rule. The majority of that record's work is simple barre and open chords. I don't really think that matters either way, as it added up to their best record, but it pokes a hole in this whole idea that it was night and day in terms of complexity of guitar post-Everyday.

He certainly as put more of an emphasis on being more straightforward lyrically in the latter half of his career, but truth be told he was going down that path before he even met Ballard (the LWS are probably his best 'less is more' work with lyrics).

raven
12-10-2012, 12:26 PM
hopefully this arrives very soon :)

Mitch
12-10-2012, 12:32 PM
hopefully this arrives very soon :)

:upyours I'm excited for these. Will be downloading my FLACs early Wednesday morning.

batleon
12-10-2012, 01:20 PM
Got the email today saying this has shipped :banana

TheNoise
12-10-2012, 07:23 PM
just bought the digital bundle. looking forward to hearing these two

timh.
12-10-2012, 07:32 PM
there any clips of this stuff anywhere yet?

andydmb77
12-10-2012, 07:45 PM
The digital download for both shows will be available @ 1:00am on 12/12/12. There are no preview clips up which I find kind of bizarre.

Poth Ead
12-10-2012, 08:15 PM
im looking forward to these releases...


I really want that IZod n1 released :lol

JWood
12-11-2012, 09:45 AM
C'mon DMB! Everyone knows new music comes out on a Tuesday, not Wednesday morning. :nono

Mitch
12-11-2012, 12:00 PM
Tomorrow :rawk

mjf
12-11-2012, 05:29 PM
I honestly think I am more excited for this than I was for even Livetrax 1. Considering how shitty management is at picking shows (how long did it take for a summer '97 to come out?) I thought there was NO chance in hell we'd ever get another '96, let alone the right one. Fuckin' can't wait.

Mersh
12-11-2012, 05:37 PM
I honestly think I am more excited for this than I was for even Livetrax 1. Considering how shitty management is at picking shows (how long did it take for a summer '97 to come out?) I thought there was NO chance in hell we'd ever get another '96, let alone the right one. Fuckin' can't wait.

Nothing of interest came out between LT1 and LT17 (which isn't a top summer 97 to begin with)?

mjf
12-11-2012, 06:21 PM
Nothing of interest came out between LT1 and LT17 (which isn't a top summer 97 to begin with)?

I didn't mean nothing of interest came out in between then, I just meant I am more excited for this release than I was for pretty much all of them. I am a huge D&T fan. I still listen to the Hampton show, that may '95 show, and a few others often but I wasn't as excited for those as I am for this. Can't wait.

Luther College was my first album I was given back in '99... guess that has something to do with it.

Mersh
12-11-2012, 06:53 PM
I didn't mean nothing of interest came out in between then, I just meant I am more excited for this release than I was for pretty much all of them. I am a huge D&T fan. I still listen to the Hampton show, that may '95 show, and a few others often but I wasn't as excited for those as I am for this. Can't wait.

Luther College was my first album I was given back in '99... guess that has something to do with it.

Fair enough. I gotcha now.

Jack
12-11-2012, 06:59 PM
Part of me wishes these were being released like two weeks apart.

So pumped to get these. Shipping confirmation on Monday. Hoping to have the discs by the end of the week.

priceofacoke910
12-11-2012, 07:10 PM
Part of me wishes these were being released like two weeks apart.

So pumped to get these. Shipping confirmation on Monday. Hoping to have the discs by the end of the week.

I've gotta wait till Xmas....but I think I can handle it.

Mitch
12-11-2012, 07:24 PM
I didn't mean nothing of interest came out in between then, I just meant I am more excited for this release than I was for pretty much all of them. I am a huge D&T fan. I still listen to the Hampton show, that may '95 show, and a few others often but I wasn't as excited for those as I am for this. Can't wait.


:upyours LT12, that is one of my very favorite releases

LIOGwhat
12-11-2012, 07:38 PM
:upyours LT12, that is one of my very favorite releases

i find it to be a real fun 95 show, it has really become my go-to when i'm feeling 95.

i think my other top live trax are hartford 2000, hampton 96, alpine 04, and rio 08

Mitch
12-11-2012, 07:57 PM
i find it to be a real fun 95 show, it has really become my go-to when i'm feeling 95.


No doubt. It really captures that hungry, fire-in-their-bellies energy of '95. I think the fact that it is within weeks of my first show (4/11/95) earns it points with me, too :)


i think my other top live trax are hartford 2000, hampton 96, alpine 04, and rio 08

We're pretty like-minded on all those, although you're leaving out a BIG one for me- LT20 Wetlands 8/93, that's about as good as it gets

Mersh
12-11-2012, 08:52 PM
The SOMA show is a great one that doesn't get mentioned much.

FiddySpence
12-11-2012, 08:53 PM
it's still my favorite LT and one of their very best releases. the mix and performance is perfect. it just packs a mean muscular punch, especially for something from that era.

Jack
12-11-2012, 09:08 PM
it's still my favorite LT and one of their very best releases. the mix and performance is perfect. it just packs a mean muscular punch, especially for something from that era.

SOMA?

FiddySpence
12-11-2012, 09:11 PM
whoops, nevermind.

got that confused with the Salem, OR livetrax.

TDunk
12-11-2012, 10:41 PM
Soma is san diego

Mersh
12-11-2012, 10:49 PM
Soma is san diego

If you are talking to me, I know. I was saying that is another great show as someone already mentioned LT12.

Mitch
12-11-2012, 10:52 PM
The SOMA show is a great one that doesn't get mentioned much.

I agree. I like that one a lot, too. 95 was the best.