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Old 10-19-2020, 10:35 PM   #27281
3beamsoflight6
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Whatís the best 41 solo from those years?

Better question for this discussion, whatís the best 41 from those years I can find on YouTube or if you have a link handy to share?
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Old 10-20-2020, 12:15 AM   #27282
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My two favorites are 4.14.09 at MSG (one of my favorite Tim’s solos of all time) and 9.5.09 at The Gorge (I think this is my favorite #41 from the 2008-2010 time period; the interplay between Carter and Jeff during the jam and how they slowly build to the eventual crescendo is out of this world good!)
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Old 10-20-2020, 06:09 AM   #27283
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Originally Posted by 3beamsoflight6 View Post
Whatís the best 41 solo from those years?

Better question for this discussion, whatís the best 41 from those years I can find on YouTube or if you have a link handy to share?
I've always liked this one....Soullive is there, but there are so many to enjoy (:

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and and if you want some banjo and some Jeff with them in 2002.

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Old 10-20-2020, 07:21 AM   #27284
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Hereís an officially released one on YouTube from 2009 which is great:



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I've always liked this one....Soullive is there, but there are so many to enjoy (:

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and and if you want some banjo and some Jeff with them in 2002.

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He wants best ones from 2008-2010.
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Old 10-20-2020, 09:00 AM   #27285
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Is it me or is every Coffin guest appearance solo better than anything he's done since he's been a fulltime member?

Same with Tim. Every Warren, Santana, Trey spot has a better solo than anything Tim has done since '08.

What gives?
I think the difference is in that 'Roi is playing on those guest spots and Jeff added his style over the top, so hearing it back triggers some major LeRoi nostalgia. Now, Jeff's the guy with no 'backup' unless you count Rashawn.
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Old 10-20-2020, 09:25 AM   #27286
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Hereís an officially released one on YouTube from 2009 which is great:





He wants best ones from 2008-2010.
My buddy loves this one. he never shuts up about it. They go into a samba/salsa vibe between Jeff and Carter.

Im not as in on 2009 dmb, but i do love 2010 dmb. I think they really hit their stride in 2010 as a new band (no roi, + tim & Jeff). after that, i think we all know it got stale and they tried new things.
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Old 10-20-2020, 10:48 AM   #27287
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Hereís an officially released one on YouTube from 2009 which is great:





He wants best ones from 2008-2010.
Here's another good one:
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Old 10-21-2020, 11:47 AM   #27288
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Is it me or is every Coffin guest appearance solo better than anything he's done since he's been a fulltime member?

Same with Tim. Every Warren, Santana, Trey spot has a better solo than anything Tim has done since '08.

What gives?
Thatís a major exaggeration. His LITHOG solos, for one... as someone mentioned, Lover Lay Down. The Stone. BOWA. Raven. You never know. All great spots for him.

Same with Tim, though I will say that my 2 favorite Tim songs - Crush and Two Step, were better in 98... largely arrangement issues, though. But since then, Iíve heard absolutely top notch solos from him on several songs. Graves and Sugar Will come to mind.
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Old 10-21-2020, 12:24 PM   #27289
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Thatís a major exaggeration. His LITHOG solos, for one... as someone mentioned, Lover Lay Down. The Stone. BOWA. Raven. You never know. All great spots for him.

Same with Tim, though I will say that my 2 favorite Tim songs - Crush and Two Step, were better in 98... largely arrangement issues, though. But since then, Iíve heard absolutely top notch solos from him on several songs. Graves and Sugar Will come to mind.
3.0/4.0 songs that Jeff kill it on repeatedly: #41, Stone, LLD, LITHOG, So Right, Raven, You Never Know, BOWA, WWYS, - even Say Goodbye and Bartender on flute/pennywhistle. He had great solos on Grace is Gone in 2010 and Dive In in 2016. Oh yeah, even Come Tomorrow he does great solos on.

3.0/4.0 songs Tim has killed repeatedly: Crush, #41, Two Step, Cornbread, YMDT, Sugar Will, Dancing Nancies, Rhyme & Reason, Recently
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Old 10-21-2020, 02:43 PM   #27290
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Listen to 7:09 - 13:12

[
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Listen to 2:06:29 - 2:12:45

Both of these are fast, faster and louder. I enjoy them for sure but to compare the quality of solo's in these two to this....


Listen 11:19 - 15:25
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Old 10-21-2020, 02:49 PM   #27291
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Thatís a major exaggeration. His LITHOG solos, for one... as someone mentioned, Lover Lay Down. The Stone. BOWA. Raven. You never know. All great spots for him.

Same with Tim, though I will say that my 2 favorite Tim songs - Crush and Two Step, were better in 98... largely arrangement issues, though. But since then, Iíve heard absolutely top notch solos from him on several songs. Graves and Sugar Will come to mind.
I'm not sure you're following me here.

I'm saying Jeff as a guest was much better than Jeff fulltime.

I'm saying Tim's solos in general are much worse than guest solos on just about every song. Can someone send a link to a killer Tim solo (electric only. Acoustic he's great. His Billies solo from Luther is an all-time favorite)- one that has melody and builds to a climax? I couldn't care less about loud and fast playing.
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Old 10-21-2020, 02:59 PM   #27292
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I'm not sure you're following me here.

I'm saying Jeff as a guest was much better than Jeff fulltime.

I'm saying Tim's solos in general are much worse than guest solos on just about every song. Can someone send a link to a killer Tim solo (electric only. Acoustic he's great. His Billies solo from Luther is an all-time favorite)- one that has melody and builds to a climax? I couldn't care less about loud and fast playing.
Jeff as a guest was infinitely better than full time. The band dropped the ball with him full time. They just donít see/hear it.
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Old 10-21-2020, 03:08 PM   #27293
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Jeff has plenty of solos throughout his time as a full-time member that are as good as any guest spot. His solo on that LT1 #41 follows the same progression as the Brixton 09 one. He starts out low and slow, gets faster, builds to a higher register and plays faster and more intensely. The only difference I'm hearing between the two is that Carter is doing more in the Brixton one. He's rising to Jeff's intensity as the solo builds. In LT1 he's hitting that snare at the same consistent pace for most of the solo. In LT1, everyone is playing backup to Jeff. In Brixton, Carter and Jeff are really jamming together.

A note about Tim/Jeff as guests vs full-time: When somebody is a full-time member they're not gonna go crazy on every single song. When they're a guest, they're usually gonna get the spotlight for the 1-2 songs they're on in the show. Except for Tim's 4-song guest spot in 2004 where he did absolutely nothing, which blew my mind (in a bad way).

As for Tim, I don't really know what you want. You want a "killer Tim solo that has a melody and builds to a climax but doesn't have loud or fast playing"? I don't know what exactly you're looking for, but for starters, in 2008 he had amazing ones on Two Step, Crush, Proudest Monkey, Sugar Will, and others.

I think you basically just don't like when DMB gets too intense and prefer the slower more laid-back playing. I don't think it has anything to do with the calibre of Jeff and Tim's solos. It's a full band issue that I'd say has much more to do with Carter than anyone else.

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Old 10-21-2020, 04:23 PM   #27294
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Jeff seems like he was better as a guest because it barely happened, so those moments stand out more as fonder memories. We've gotten very spoiled and used to having Jeff there for every single show, and we've forgotten how amazing he truly is. Every single time he's given the spotlight to shine and solo (by himself), he 100% crushes it every time. On every single song. And he doesn't always play super technically either. He's beautiful on LLD and BOWA, and even attempts to channel some Roi on those, and does so very well imo without copying.


As far Tim goes, it's probably that you just aren't into his style. He's more of a shredder/metal kind of guitar player. I'm also much more into his acoustic playing than his electric playing, but to say his solos aren't good isn't really true. From a guitar playing technical standpoint, they are equally as impressive as any guest, but his approach and style is very very unique.

Most of the guest guitar players are the traditional blues/jam band style players (Warren, Trey, Mayer, Krasno etc.) They don't do any of these crazy chromatic jazzy or metal-based runs, they keep it very "soulful" sounding. Tim is more of a virtuostic player, and he does lots of avant garde type stuff most guitar players wouldn't think about doing in a solo. It's incredible and he's awesome every time on every song, but if you're not into his style, you're definitely not going to like it. And that's probably really what it is.
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Old 10-21-2020, 05:55 PM   #27295
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Jeff has plenty of solos throughout his time as a full-time member that are as good as any guest spot. His solo on that LT1 #41 follows the same progression as the Brixton 09 one. He starts out low and slow, gets faster, builds to a higher register and plays faster and more intensely. The only difference I'm hearing between the two is that Carter is doing more in the Brixton one. He's rising to Jeff's intensity as the solo builds. In LT1 he's hitting that snare at the same consistent pace for most of the solo. In LT1, everyone is playing backup to Jeff. In Brixton, Carter and Jeff are really jamming together.
I don't know man... You may be right about it being the same progression but the smoothness of 12.3.98 is undeniable and unbelievable. In my opinion it's a better solo than Brixton...by a lot.

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A note about Tim/Jeff as guests vs full-time: When somebody is a full-time member they're not gonna go crazy on every single song. When they're a guest, they're usually gonna get the spotlight for the 1-2 songs they're on in the show. Except for Tim's 4-song guest spot in 2004 where he did absolutely nothing, which blew my mind (in a bad way).
I think this is a fair argument, to an extent. In this case it doesn't hold up, IMO. The Brixton solo you posted, Jeff seems to be going "crazy" - playing as fast and loud as possible. It's impressive but LT1 is as smooth as I've ever heard the sax being played.

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As for Tim, I don't really know what you want. You want a "killer Tim solo that has a melody and builds to a climax but doesn't have loud or fast playing"? I don't know what exactly you're looking for, but for starters, in 2008 he had amazing ones on Two Step, Crush, Proudest Monkey, Sugar Will, and others.
The LT 2008 PM is an amazing Tim solo. Many of his solos suck though. This thought popped into my head when San Fran 04 Watchtower came up on Sirius. Santana's solo is pretty fucking great and 100% better than any Watchtower solo I've ever heard Tim play on.

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I think you basically just don't like when DMB gets too intense and prefer the slower more laid-back playing. I don't think it has anything to do with the calibre of Jeff and Tim's solos. It's a full band issue that I'd say has much more to do with Carter than anyone else.
I'm not sure about that. I don't mind intense playing. I enjoy intense playing with a purpose, however. Most of what what I hear in terms of solos from Jeff and Tim is fast, loud and probably technically amazing but they just don't sound "good" to me. Just personal preference, I suppose.
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Old 10-21-2020, 06:04 PM   #27296
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Jeff seems like he was better as a guest because it barely happened, so those moments stand out more as fonder memories. We've gotten very spoiled and used to having Jeff there for every single show, and we've forgotten how amazing he truly is. Every single time he's given the spotlight to shine and solo (by himself), he 100% crushes it every time. On every single song. And he doesn't always play super technically either. He's beautiful on LLD and BOWA, and even attempts to channel some Roi on those, and does so very well imo without copying.
I don't know, we just compared 98 to 09 and 10 and 98 wins by a mile, IMO. I don't have fonder memories of it and I don't think I'm spoiled - it's just a better piece of music?


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As far Tim goes, it's probably that you just aren't into his style. He's more of a shredder/metal kind of guitar player. I'm also much more into his acoustic playing than his electric playing, but to say his solos aren't good isn't really true. From a guitar playing technical standpoint, they are equally as impressive as any guest, but his approach and style is very very unique.
This makes sense. I'm not denying his technical ability. I'm just saying, when I listen to Warren, Santana, Trey, Mayer, etc etc etc, they have better sounding solos and it's not a question to me. Again, Tim's playing may be more technical but who gives a shit about that it doesn't sound as good as someone less technical? Maybe many people but not me, apparently.

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Most of the guest guitar players are the traditional blues/jam band style players (Warren, Trey, Mayer, Krasno etc.) They don't do any of these crazy chromatic jazzy or metal-based runs, they keep it very "soulful" sounding. Tim is more of a virtuostic player, and he does lots of avant garde type stuff most guitar players wouldn't think about doing in a solo. It's incredible and he's awesome every time on every song, but if you're not into his style, you're definitely not going to like it. And that's probably really what it is.
Good point. This is most likely a bit piece of it. I'm a simple soul. I like what sounds good
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Old 10-21-2020, 06:17 PM   #27297
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Tim’s solo on proudest monkey lt15 is great. He and carter are listening to each other. It’s cool.
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Old 10-21-2020, 06:29 PM   #27298
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I don't know, we just compared 98 to 09 and 10 and 98 wins by a mile, IMO. I don't have fonder memories of it and I don't think I'm spoiled - it's just a better piece of music?


This makes sense. I'm not denying his technical ability. I'm just saying, when I listen to Warren, Santana, Trey, Mayer, etc etc etc, they have better sounding solos and it's not a question to me. Again, Tim's playing may be more technical but who gives a shit about that it doesn't sound as good as someone less technical? Maybe many people but not me, apparently.


Good point. This is most likely a bit piece of it. I'm a simple soul. I like what sounds good

Yeah, that LT1 41 solo is one of the best sax solos of all time by any player I've ever heard, I 100% agree. But that's just one instance and one solo, not enough to say "Jeff is a better guest than a full time member". Also, we've had LT1 to listen to for several years before Jeff joined in '08. Not saying it's not an amazing piece of music, but we tend to hold stuff we've heard "first" as being "better" a lot of times, more out of nostalgia than anything else.

Agreed about Tim's playing. It's all totally subjective and that's why music is awesome. Some people enjoy watching and hearing Tim be totally unique and different, some prefer a more traditional, slower, more soulful style. Sometimes the song calls for that approach, as in Watchtower..which is a fully blown blues based hendrix type solo. Tim is an acquired taste. I enjoy his playing a lot, but even I prefer Tim on acoustic by a mile. The stuff he does in the D+T setting is among the best work on acoustic I've ever heard from anyone in the world.
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Old 10-21-2020, 07:20 PM   #27299
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Timís solo on proudest monkey lt15 is great. He and carter are listening to each other. Itís cool.
Yeah, Tim on proudest monkey is absolutely killer.

Iím a huge proponent of Tim, acoustic and electric, and i do not deny thereís a number of his solos that donít really blow me away, but when he does kill it, itís fucking absurd and hair-raising. That was also the case in 98, as a good a tour and year that was. But we are talking about a huge volume of shows now. As a full-time member, I think the approach changes quite a bit over time.

The reason Tim has intrigued me and inspired me as a musician is how integrated into the songs he typically gets. His ability to find 2nd parts to Daveís unorthodox (historically) writing is his best attribute, along with probably why some of the Tim haters donít like him. He toes the line with being busy, but itís an approach I couldnít ever see anyone coming close to replicating. Most other guitar players would essentially be a version of Jeff - possibly a virtuoso, but really only adding the occasional solo and otherwise either doubling Dave or at most adding a few standard licks here and there.

I do think itís very much about whether you like his style or not. Technically speaking, he is definitely not getting worse since being a full time member.
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Old 10-21-2020, 08:52 PM   #27300
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My two favorites are 4.14.09 at MSG (one of my favorite Timís solos of all time) and 9.5.09 at The Gorge (I think this is my favorite #41 from the 2008-2010 time period; the interplay between Carter and Jeff during the jam and how they slowly build to the eventual crescendo is out of this world good!)
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I'm not sure you're following me here.

I'm saying Jeff as a guest was much better than Jeff fulltime.

I'm saying Tim's solos in general are much worse than guest solos on just about every song. Can someone send a link to a killer Tim solo (electric only. Acoustic he's great. His Billies solo from Luther is an all-time favorite)- one that has melody and builds to a climax? I couldn't care less about loud and fast playing.
Regarding a great Tim solo with melody and build, I go back to my post about #41 from 4.14.09 at MSG. Gweeps, you have this one handy by chance?
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